(12-04-2014, 07:18 PM)oldvet Wrote:  This is an interesting topic. The issue of someone running or not engaging after the prac is essentially over has been a frustration since 1996. While it's not against the rules to continue to play after you've basically lost, it is certainly dishonorable and selfish (I agree with Arctos here). 3 or 4 versus 1 is no longer a prac; it's an exercise in patience. By continuing to play, you were hoping the other team would get bored, impatient, and eventually suicide so that you could swindle them out of a win. Think of it like chess - when in a clear losing position the honorable thing to do is concede, instead of playing the game out or, even worse, letting your clock run out.

The solution to this problem: Once a prac becomes 3 or 4 versus 1 the bot should start a 2 minute timer (separate from the game clock). The game ends unless that 1 pilot can score a kill before the 2 minute timer runs out. If that 1 pilot is able to kill, the timer resets to 2 minutes. If a kill by that 1 pilot causes the game to become 2 versus 1, then the timer will no longer be used. Kills by the team in the lead do not reset the timer. The only exception to this should be if the game is tied (9-9 is the only possibility for this).

That said, the only one who broke an official rule was Rage. He has done this countless times and deserves the ban. Breaking the rules was not justified just because you disagreed with how Mindriot was playing. The community is already very small. Lawless behavior with no regard to the established rule set is cancerous and should not be tolerated.

(12-04-2014, 10:28 PM)Rage161 Wrote:  

(12-04-2014, 07:18 PM)oldvet Wrote:  This is an interesting topic. The issue of someone running or not engaging after the prac is essentially over has been a frustration since 1996. While it's not against the rules to continue to play after you've basically lost, it is certainly dishonorable and selfish (I agree with Arctos here). 3 or 4 versus 1 is no longer a prac; it's an exercise in patience. By continuing to play, you were hoping the other team would get bored, impatient, and eventually suicide so that you could swindle them out of a win. Think of it like chess - when in a clear losing position the honorable thing to do is concede, instead of playing the game out or, even worse, letting your clock run out.

The solution to this problem: Once a prac becomes 3 or 4 versus 1 the bot should start a 2 minute timer (separate from the game clock). The game ends unless that 1 pilot can score a kill before the 2 minute timer runs out. If that 1 pilot is able to kill, the timer resets to 2 minutes. If a kill by that 1 pilot causes the game to become 2 versus 1, then the timer will no longer be used. Kills by the team in the lead do not reset the timer. The only exception to this should be if the game is tied (9-9 is the only possibility for this).

That said, the only one who broke an official rule was Rage. He has done this countless times and deserves the ban. Breaking the rules was not justified just because you disagreed with how Mindriot was playing. The community is already very small. Lawless behavior with no regard to the established rule set is cancerous and should not be tolerated.

The countless times equaling a grand total of twice including this infraction.  I have no idea who you are, but taking a random shot at me has nothing to with the issue at hand.  The issue is Mindriot decided he wanted to kill the arena for his own selfish agenda (which he did.)  Sorry I shouldn't have subbed in, my entire team should have just speced and ended the game abusing the robot in an advantageous way like Mindriot has done in the past and admitted to in his own log.  The whole situation is a joke, and if the shoe was on the other foot he would be whining about that also.  Mindriot is a certified lunatic nothing more.

(12-05-2014, 05:14 AM)Odin Wrote:  I'll speak my 2 cents, I actually think Mindriot was within his right to do what he's doing, there's nothing wrong with that.  He's going for his prac points and it is good practice to run.  Engaging was basically when we would spread out and someone would overfire mindriot would pick them off.  The problem I have with the situation was that the game was over, riot had no chance of winning really, I had 3 lives left and as terrible as I am I honestly doubt Mindriot would kill me 3 times in a row.  I can run too if it realy came to it and I cared to in a practice where there's people waiting.  Most of the time I just spec if I don't want to take a death at the end and I'm not in the mood of actually dragging it out.  Eventually I suicided for toys since my team was clearly determined to chase him all out rather than slowly grind him down and force him to attack.  As the clock wind down it became obvious he wasn't trying to win by attacking but by us killingourselves chasing him.  This situation simply cannot play out as it did in a real game.  In the meantime I wanted to play more pracs and I think this kind of killed the arena.  

Mindriot, a similar situation played out a few weeks ago against Assassins and you calling Mop a coward and a terrible player.  The fact is that you're simply wasting time in situations like this and if you think that what you were doing is "engaging" you're lying to yourself.  

Anyways, as I said, I support people actually trying to win pracs and you're fully within your right to do whatever you want and play the game as you like.  I think it was pretty sad though and you clearly are emotionally unstable.  Trying your heart out yet flipping out when people turn the clock on you?  If the game was close and you had a legitimate reason to think you can actually win I'm all for you trying.  This was not such a case though.

Rage knew this was bannable and I don't think he'll be fighting it.  I frankly don't think that this should be a bannable offense though, especially if someone lags out and no subs are around.  If the other team is ok with someone who already played subbing into a lagged out slot I don't understand why it's such a big deal.  

Carry on now.

(12-05-2014, 04:03 PM)Odin Wrote:  I had nothing to do with Rage subbing and if anything he was detrimental to my play. I was perfectly content to run the clock against you after it became obvious you thought this was rz and you had the last flag.

(12-05-2014, 05:55 PM)BlueGoku Wrote:  Not only is it common sense, but it's the decent thing to do to spec when you are 1v3. It's not a league game, the lost erating is negligible, and you were probably already above 0 on regular rating. I wasn't there, but based on the log it is pretty clear the arena was not going to survive a 1v3 runfest. Why not do the decent thing and spec?

As for the ban, obviously it wouldn't have come to that if you had manned up and sat so that you could (most likely) play another game at 4v4. In a dying game I have no idea why we are still banning people for a week at a time (especially coinciding with what is supposed to be a competitive league). This whole situation is dumb and childish.

(12-05-2014, 07:53 PM)Odin Wrote:  I'm coining a new verb: Mindrioting

Definition: the act of dragging out a practice in unwinnable situations and then losing ones mental faculties when the opponents choose to run the clock.

This term may also be used when terrible players are trying and caring their hearts out.

(12-06-2014, 04:00 AM)Surrey Wrote:  As for the situation, it's not a very hard concept. Get some refs like we used to have, I'm sure there are 5-6 active people who can take on this role without abusing it. We aren't children any more. If it's 3v1 or 4v1 and the score is like 11-4 the majority of us can tell who MAY possibly have a chance to win based on opponents and who can't possibly win. If it's 3v1 11-4 and there is 10 minutes left, lets face it, this game can just end now.  If a player is not engaging, end it, this is easy to tell. Sitting back and lobbing and then running if the enemy drives towards you is not considered engaging. Yes, it's a judgement call when people are engaging or not, but there are plenty of situations where people are "engaging" where the game can just be ended regardless.

(12-05-2014, 06:07 PM)mindriot Wrote:  

(12-05-2014, 05:55 PM)BlueGoku Wrote:  Not only is it common sense, but it's the decent thing to do to spec when you are 1v3. It's not a league game, the lost erating is negligible, and you were probably already above 0 on regular rating. I wasn't there, but based on the log it is pretty clear the arena was not going to survive a 1v3 runfest. Why not do the decent thing and spec?

As for the ban, obviously it wouldn't have come to that if you had manned up and sat so that you could (most likely) play another game at 4v4. In a dying game I have no idea why we are still banning people for a week at a time (especially coinciding with what is supposed to be a competitive league). This whole situation is dumb and childish.

I've seen many instances where a player won a 3 on 1 or a 4 on 1. When did it suddenly become "cool" to give up when you feel you can win? 

Winning a 3 on 1 or a 4 on 1 is the ultimate victory and makes this game even more fun to play. I was playing for myself and for my team, and to maintain our win streak. I earned every right to do so as we won 5 games before losing this one. You don't just let a streak go because someone deems it impossible, that is not the way of a warrior.

Once again, if you cannot trap and kill 1 pilot with 3, that is actively engaging and killing you 1 by 1, than you probably need to work on your skills.

I was in the same situation the other day, facing 2 pilots alone, one of which was saiyan... I lasted no more than 3 to 4 minutes. I'm sorry that Odin doesn't have the skills saiyan does but that does not mean I'm going to just give up for him.

Also, I find this whole arena killing argument silly. Our game occurred shortly after midnight if I am not mistaken, practice matches usually run to about 1:30am. Still plenty of players and time to play.