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+--- Thread: What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? (/showthread.php?tid=80)
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What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? - Surrey - 08-20-2014
For me it's not about the quality of the squad, it's the people I play with. That's why I've generally recruited to my own squad people I enjoy playing with.
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<div>Don't get me wrong dev, I'm not talking about players that have been on those squads for the last 5 years. I'm talking about the unnecessary stacking.</div>
The top squads are 10-12 deep, while maybe 5-6 players get the playing time they should be getting.
Imagine if 2 of those players from each of top squads who don't play as much as they should, joined backarrow, cosmic rift, llamas, ego and sfe. There would be 5 squads with great lineups + 5 that could actually put up a fight on any given weekend.
So, my question is: wouldn't it be way better to have 4 really interesting matches every week than 1 or max 2 that we have atm?
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I kind of disagree with you here. I wouldn't be that interested in having a couple top players join the lower tier squads. That would most likely cut the playing time for those who enjoy the game and want to play against others at their level (yes they play the top squads, but come playoffs they still have a shot at winning a title in aml and getting playing time). I would however be more than happy to see some of the top guys break off to form their own squad and make Pro more competitive. Most of the top squads have 14 rostered but really only play ~ 8 players ever. What if 2 or 3 players decided to join 2 or 3 players from another top squad and form their own squad? That would be a lot more interesting. That would keep the AML pool from being diluted with players too skilled and make PRO a lot more fun and competitive. It would also give more chance for other players currently in the above AML but not quite top notch PRO to move up to more competitive games as well.
What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? - Street - 08-20-2014
I just think most ppl would agree to having 10 competitive matches in a season, rather than 3.
What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? - Ozn - 08-20-2014
Unfortunately this whole discussion hinges on players changing their personality/behavior. That's a losing battle. It's silly to assume that top players would be complacent with playing on a weaker team just to appease the population. An individual who is competitive at heart naturally expects a level of quality from the individuals they surround themselves with. If they end up on a team that doesn't fulfill that expectation then they will look elsewhere. A top player on a very weak team just becomes a glass cannon. It's like watching an olympic sprinter pass the baton to Xena. That's just how it is and I doubt there is much that can be done to remedy that. Human nature. Competitive people want more out of who they surround themselves with.
However, instead of saying "No this won't work" I will give a suggestion. Focus on your core team and figure out what the problem is - and fix it. What's your teamwork like? What's missing from it? Does your lineups consist of the right kind of players? You can't just create a team with a ragtag crew and expect that quality players will flock to your team or you will be successful. You have to generate some level of allure because any quality player can see potential if you've properly displayed it...and if they're available there's a solid chance they will join.
I don't think I have to point out how drastically things have changed for us on Critical Mass - but I will anyway. At our core most of us played on Aenima, Thor and Requiem together YEARS before we got traction. Beforehand we didn't really put a substantial amount of thought into lineups, teamwork or much of anything. I think it's safe to say - because of that we hovered around at being a mid-level team. After improving as a team and figuring out what the problems were we had the opportunity to display our teamwork capabilities on Requiem. Subsequently we formed Critical Mass and were able to attract some quality players that were an integral part of us making it to the finals.
So with all that said I would sincerely suggest that you stand in front of the mirror and ask what you can do to create a better team. Don't just expect a top player to materialize and solve all your problems because it won't happen.
What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? - Bargeld - 08-20-2014
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At our core most of us played on Aenima, Thor and Requiem together YEARS before we got traction. Beforehand we didn't really put a substantial amount of thought into lineups, teamwork or much of anything. I think it's safe to say - because of that we hovered around at being a mid-level team. After improving as a team and figuring out what the problems were we had the opportunity to display our teamwork capabilities on Requiem. Subsequently we formed Critical Mass and were able to attract some quality players that were an integral part of us making it to the finals.
So with all that said I would sincerely suggest that you stand in front of the mirror and ask what you can do to create a better team. Don't just expect a top player to materialize and solve all your problems because it won't happen.
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That first paragraph sounds like your team practiced for years worked out a bunch of stuff and got better. Then you attracted a couple really good players that had nothing to do with the previous YEARS of coming together as a team, and those couple guys were integral to your progress to the finals.
Just seems like the messages conflict with each other.
What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? - Ozn - 08-20-2014
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ozn" data-cid="291877" data-time="1408543595">
<div>
At our core most of us played on Aenima, Thor and Requiem together YEARS before we got traction. Beforehand we didn't really put a substantial amount of thought into lineups, teamwork or much of anything. I think it's safe to say - because of that we hovered around at being a mid-level team. After improving as a team and figuring out what the problems were we had the opportunity to display our teamwork capabilities on Requiem. Subsequently we formed Critical Mass and were able to attract some quality players that were an integral part of us making it to the finals.
So with all that said I would sincerely suggest that you stand in front of the mirror and ask what you can do to create a better team. Don't just expect a top player to materialize and solve all your problems because it won't happen.
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That first paragraph sounds like your team practiced for years worked out a bunch of stuff and got better. Then you attracted a couple really good players that had nothing to do with the previous YEARS of coming together as a team, and those couple guys were integral to your progress to the finals.
Just seems like the messages conflict with each other.
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</blockquote>
No. In simple words I said we were a mid-level team that figured out our problems, fixed them and was able to develop the allure necessary to attract more quality players. I also said we spent years not playing as a team, not strategizing and just doing whatever we wanted. Finally we said enough is enough and focused on those things in order to develop a better team. There's nothing conflicting there.
My message is....if you're a low-to-mid level team you need to find a way to demonstrate some level of competence and potential in order to attract quality players. You can't just enter league with the mindset that no effort is needed to be successful or to attract better players.
What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? - Bargeld - 08-20-2014
You're right, there is nothing conflicting within the part you mentioned. You practiced, got serious, became a real team. No conflict.
The conflict I'm pointing out is that the addition of a couple guys is what you stated was integral to success leading to the finals. And your most recent response follows suit by saying that you need to improve your team in order to be attractive to better players in order to gain those players. It leads one to summarize that in order to be successful, the addition of new players was the key for your team, and is the suggested path to success for other teams... But the closing comment in the part I quoted was that a team shouldn't expect a top player to join your team and lead you to the path of victory. Although that's what the rest of what you are saying leads to. Hence conflict.
Without trying to just be nitpicky, I'm honestly trying to figure out if a team needs to practice for years in order to become successful, or if the success comes from the addition of new, better players (which are gained by being a decent team).
What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? - Ozn - 08-20-2014
Jesus I give up. Nobody reads on this forum. Good luck folks.
What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? - Street - 08-21-2014
Your core was 4 players who have played in multiple championship games. One of them was Three, who is a top 3 player in the game. Then you surrounded that core with 7th, one of the best support players, treachen and hedcase8.
What is the incentive of joining a top tier Pro League squad? - mindriot - 08-22-2014
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Your core was 4 players who have played in multiple championship games. One of them was Three, who is a top 3 player in the game. Then you surrounded that core with 7th, one of the best support players, treachen and hedcase8.
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I'd say there is a slew of players above Three.
Overall, I thought OZN made some excellent points and offered some good advise. I believe this is the most key thing he said:
<span style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">"I also said we spent years not playing as a team, not strategizing and just doing whatever we wanted. Finally we said enough is enough and focused on those things in order to develop a better team."</span>
<span>One of my the most frustrating realities in this game is pilots fighting their own battles, engaging in solitary duels, and ignoring the team dynamic. If you watch some of the latest CM or Assassins matches, they stay in a tight pack/formation and alternate firing bombs. I don't understand why this is so difficult for lower tier teams to accomplish. The logic is simple, if you and a team mate fire 1 bomb each, the potential for damage and energy conservation is more beneficial than attempting to fire 2 bombs on your own.</span>
I have realized that in order to accomplish such a seemingly obvious feat is the necessity for focus. Intent concentration is needed to stay with the team as a whole. I have come up with a simple formula which I believe can achieve these results.
1. Recognize the two best players in the starting 4. Let's say it's Jack and Bob.
2. Assign 1 wingman to Jack, and 1 wingman to Bob. The job of each wingman will be to follow the lead of Jack and Bob.
3. Jack and Bob work on staying in formation with each-other.
This will create a tightly packed form. Take it further by alternating firing bombs.. but I imagine that would require a lot more focus and skill. I have seen a few matches last season where CM and ASS managed to pull this off, perhaps unintentionally, but it was a thing of beauty.
Personally, and for the team I am on, the upcoming season will be an experiment in building a solid team dynamic by using simple strategies as the one I outlined above. I want to see how far a good team can go, and how it can overcome individual skill.