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+--- Thread: safe zones: make them easier to get to please! (/showthread.php?tid=1614)
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safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Capt ARGH! - 06-13-2011
with the safes how they are it's a pain to go there.
so i ask that we make them or at least 1 or 2 of them easier to fly to.
case for making the safes easier to get into:
1) ok the biggest reason is the many AFK moments we have. what I do is i just point my shark in the direction of empty space and float over there with the stealth on and hope no one kills me. if the safes were easier/quicker to get to, i would just fly there.
most of us do this. i killed hallu the other day when he was doing this. (i only killed him because he'd left his aw on and it was quicker than flying out of the antiwarp area - which is too large anyway, but thats another bitch).
so if its easier for the guy who can change things himself to float and die rather than be bothered to fly safe, somethings wrong. am i wrong?
2) the new bonuses setup would be more user friendly
the case against:
this seems to be that players don't want Gad to run to safe. that seems to be the main reason. i say let him.
and it seems some players don't want the safes to really be part of the game.. they want them removed from the strategy. i myself welcome using safes as a strategy. ive been involved with plenty of scraps when players are ducking in and out of safes. it's fun. well it was fun.. the only time that happens now is in the castle. and the castle doesnt get used much in it's current form - (but that's another bitch)
opinions please?
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Caerbannog - 06-13-2011
I guess you actually play enough to actually need a safezone every now and then.
Most people come and go in chaos public in such short cycles that they have no use for a safezone, and thus probably don't like safe-running newbies as much.
If the arena size (doors) were dynamic, you could use those to block access to safezones, leaving only one or so available for low pop.
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Idolatrous - 06-13-2011
I don't understand your post really... I mean if you're too lazy to fly to the safe zone so you just stealth and float, it doesn't matter how "easy" they are to get in to you're still going to be too lazy to fly to them. As they are right now they take about 5 seconds to get in to once you get to them, if you're not a great pilot. I mean they are ridiculously easy to get into and opening them up a little more will save you maybe 2 or 3 seconds? If you're in that much of a hurry to afk you should probably just spec since it's clearly an emergency and you probably won't be back in 15 minutes anyway. In my opinion they should be much harder to get in to so that people can't use them to escape someone chasing them; making them any easier will just result in ever lamer tactics being used when someone is afraid they could die.
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Capt ARGH! - 06-13-2011
[quote name='Surrey' timestamp='1307991048' post='275714']
I don't understand your post really... I mean if you're too lazy to fly to the safe zone so you just stealth and float, it doesn't matter how "easy" they are to get in to you're still going to be too lazy to fly to them. As they are right now they take about 5 seconds to get in to once you get to them, if you're not a great pilot. I mean they are ridiculously easy to get into and opening them up a little more will save you maybe 2 or 3 seconds? If you're in that much of a hurry to afk you should probably just spec since it's clearly an emergency and you probably won't be back in 15 minutes anyway. In my opinion they should be much harder to get in to so that people can't use them to escape someone chasing them; making them any easier will just result in ever lamer tactics being used when someone is afraid they could die.
[/quote]
i value your opinion about how they should be harder to get into. i'll add that to the poll and you can be counted on that if you wish.
as for the ideas about why i'm not using them and how it would be no better for me if they were opened up, i'm afraid you make allot of assumptions that arn't true, at least in my case. i don't really want to write an essay on exactly why i'd float and why i want the safes opened up, and more of them. just laying out a case as i see it in the OP is enough.
safes are not really a big deal. and i don't care that much about them, they kind of just seem to be shrivelling up and forgotten, one of the many little things that make this game that little bit less fun than it could be. for me, eventually all these small changes or stagnations could make the game not worth playing.
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Nude For Satan - 06-14-2011
I also point my ship towards the nether regions and hope I'm still there when I return from afk. Other times I just leave my ship wherever, even in the middle of battle, if I have to go. Sometimes I'll use a safe, though, especially if I'm stopping to chat to someone ingame as I'm not leaving the screen, just my ship.
The safes over toward the right hand side are still quite accessible even with their extra turn, imo. But the one in the castle is basically impossible, takes me about 20 seconds for me to get into there ... which is probably why I don't have a driver's licence.
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Capt ARGH! - 06-14-2011
just a quick post to explain something to surrey who i was having a stimulating chat with earlier today in the zone.
@surrey
ok here, in a nutshell is why i see safes as they are, as less than ideal:
when players have to be afk they tend to float instead of fly safe
increasing the amount of safe zones and making them quicker to fly to would decrease the amount of afk floating as players passing a safe would just park there instead
i would hope we all understand that to be true.
that is one but not the only reason i would like to try this. that is the point we got stuck on today when you were saying this is irrelevant to the floating question. it is not irrelevant to this one issue i draw focus upon.
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Capt ARGH! - 06-15-2011
also a note about the castle.
i assume the castle is supposed to be an 'idiot box' and a primary function of the safe there is for strategic reasons relating to gameplay in the castle.
as such i think any change to the design of the castle should be made to make it a better castle or 'idiot box' rather than to make the safe there easier to access.
by the way the castle as it is now is not good IMO. but that's another thread
... which i will start <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Idolatrous - 06-15-2011
[quote name='Capt ARGH!' timestamp='1308089784' post='275752']
when players have to be afk they tend to float instead of fly safe
increasing the amount of safe zones and making them quicker to fly to would decrease the amount of afk floating as players passing a safe would just park there instead
[/quote]
I'm sure increasing the number of safe zones and making them open would increase the amount of people using safe... but that doesn't make it a good idea. If you add more safe zones and make them simple to access then it's just going to promote people constantly running in when being chased or out of reps/rockets. It will become nearly impossible to chase down a turret, or a high bounty. The amount of people using it to afk will maybe increase very slightly, where the amount of safe zone laming will increase dramatically. The trade off is a terrible one. Catering to the few people who think it's too difficult or time consuming to spend the 20 seconds to fly to a safe zone at the expense of the current game play is a very bad idea. It's pretty unanimous that people already want to see a smaller map to prevent the ease that running/greening is right now, so keeping this size map and adding more safe zones would not only allow for constant running/greening (especially in a small populated zone) but also add in the ease of just popping into a safe zone when you run out of specials and waiting out anyone trying to kill you. It's just not good for game play at all.
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Capt ARGH! - 06-15-2011
[quote name='Surrey' timestamp='1308154927' post='275789']
[quote name='Capt ARGH!' timestamp='1308089784' post='275752']
when players have to be afk they tend to float instead of fly safe
increasing the amount of safe zones and making them quicker to fly to would decrease the amount of afk floating as players passing a safe would just park there instead
[/quote]
I'm sure increasing the number of safe zones and making them open would increase the amount of people using safe... but that doesn't make it a good idea. If you add more safe zones and make them simple to access then it's just going to promote people constantly running in when being chased or out of reps/rockets. It will become nearly impossible to chase down a turret, or a high bounty. The amount of people using it to afk will maybe increase very slightly, where the amount of safe zone laming will increase dramatically. The trade off is a terrible one. Catering to the few people who think it's too difficult or time consuming to spend the 20 seconds to fly to a safe zone at the expense of the current game play is a very bad idea. It's pretty unanimous that people already want to see a smaller map to prevent the ease that running/greening is right now, so keeping this size map and adding more safe zones would not only allow for constant running/greening (especially in a small populated zone) but also add in the ease of just popping into a safe zone when you run out of specials and waiting out anyone trying to kill you. It's just not good for game play at all.
[/quote]
these are good points.. appart from the 20 second thing.. it's an underestimate.
RE: the trade off is terrible.
yes i agree, from your point of view, it would be terrible -if you imagine a map riddled with open safe zones.
(which is an interesting concept actually and could provide some refreshing game play.)
But i get what youââ¬â¢re saying; you don't like 'lamer tactics'. ok fair enough. i feel this comes under the: players want the safes removed from the strategy of game play as i mentioned in post 1.
i'm saying: more safes please. i'm not saying i want a million of them. just a couple more in good places. well designed. ...
lameness is actually something i like to some extent and try to be good at: rocketing in stealth firing a line of bullets at a point on radar is something i try to do well, some would say that's lame.. it's still a skill and enjoyable and worth getting good at if you want to take out a turret.
i draw the lameness-line at spiders mine repping... that's tiresome. but if we take that as the baseline of lame-dom should we not cater for play above that base line?
as i've said i remember plenty of exchanges based around safes and find the challenge of killing a player who's using a safe as a shield entertaining and the win satisfying. i also enjoy being that guy who's using the safe. usually these battles flip between hunter and hunted. it's good stuff and fun to play.
that part of the game is now gone. save in a couple of idiot box's, one of which is a de-evolved version of the castle, which isn't that great to play, and the other, J12 has no way out.
I say that more well designed open safe areas would be - on balance - GOOD for game play and chaos. if it were done carefully and in moderation.
really what triggered me into starting this thread is when i was killed again AFK and made me think.. why should that happen. why shouldn't i just be allowed to park in 2 seconds, answer the door and come back .. ever had a postman wait at the door with a parcel for 30 seconds?
HI!!, sorry i've been a while getting to the door, i had to park my space ship.
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Yupa - 06-17-2011
whiners: do whatever they say please!
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Caerbannog - 06-18-2011
Quote:really what triggered me into starting this thread is when i was killed again AFK and made me think.. why should that happen. why shouldn't i just be allowed to park in 2 seconds, answer the door and come back .. ever had a postman wait at the door with a parcel for 30 seconds?
Postmen can wait. Your neighbors can wait. Pretty much any unannounced door bell ringing person can wait. And that 30 seconds is more than what you tested with Surrey.
And if it's someone who announced they'd be coming over, you want to hit F11.
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Capt ARGH! - 06-18-2011
sorry guy
postmen dont wait
to clarify
i tested 24 seconds to get safe that time you were there and i estimate around 6 seconds to put my crack pipe down, snuff the rock out and get to the door.
not that it matters. its retarded to start an argument about how long or not a postman will wait
shall i fucking time that too !?!! lol
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Capt ARGH! - 06-18-2011
[quote name='Yupa' timestamp='1308334585' post='275854']
whiners: do whatever they say please!
[/quote]
people who never want to question anything or have a debate: make more non-constructive comments please!
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Ethylene! - 06-18-2011
Captain Fag wants everything handed to him. Typical loser Chaos player, give me, give me, give me. And how fucking often does the mailman knock on your door? What an idiot.
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - PsyOps - 06-26-2011
A: 16.43 sec
B: 22.38 sec
C: 21.09 sec
D: 25.28 sec
E: 18.21 sec
F: 16.50 sec
G: 20.45 sec
H: 16.43 sec
I: 23.00 sec
ave time: 19.97 sec
Thats all i had time for at the time to test. i will test more spots later. All i did was give myself a random warp and timed myself to safe. So worst case scenario: you are off in a corner. Press insert then go to safe.
oh yeh heres the gfx. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mega_shok.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':clapping:' />
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Capt ARGH! - 06-27-2011
good stuff!
lets say 20 secs from the central area then.
little curious as to why it took you longer from point D than I
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - PsyOps - 06-28-2011
Some factors include me trying to press the stop key on timer. They are also not my best times for each, they are just how long they took. So i think maybe on the one that took longer i hit a corner wrong. We can maybe mess with it later and see what we come up with. But yeh on ave I'd say 20 seconds was a pretty good number.
Battle will factor in to actual times. I did this when no one was on. If i were on when you tried to go to safe, I'm willing to bet i would come at you and you would die. Then you could just fly into spec. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':clapping:' />
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Capt ARGH! - 06-28-2011
probably.
and its also a risk taking the quick route into the castle. easy to die there
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Axe Demento - 01-05-2012
A quick note <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> a few changes in the map would be great. the Safezone as they are aren't that bad to get to. You could always make a couple mini squares which would be fun <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />The castle i really think needs to be fixed. It should be a good place for a slug-fest and not being able to fly round it is a poorer version than before. I like the bill board but it would be must better to view it from in the safety. The bottom part should be re-opened and i'm not huge fan of the easier to fly in sides. What do you lot think of it?
...Axe
safe zones: make them easier to get to please! - Plutorus - 01-05-2012
[quote name='Axe Demento' timestamp='1325746479' post='280431']
A quick note <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> a few changes in the map would be great. the Safezone as they are aren't that bad to get to. You could always make a couple mini squares which would be fun <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />The castle i really think needs to be fixed. It should be a good place for a slug-fest and not being able to fly round it is a poorer version than before. I like the bill board but it would be must better to view it from in the safety. The bottom part should be re-opened and i'm not huge fan of the easier to fly in sides. What do you lot think of it?
...Axe
[/quote]
I love the safe zone in castle, but I also would prefer if the inner structure were re-opened so you could fly around the entirety of it. It's definitely an important fixture.