+- SVS Subspace Forums (http://forum.svssubspace.com)
+-- Forum: 4v4 League (http://forum.svssubspace.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=60)
+--- Forum: Pro League Discussion (http://forum.svssubspace.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=39)
+--- Thread: [Removal] Port Llast (/showthread.php?tid=178)
[Removal] Port Llast - SK+ - 05-11-2014
Hello,
Unfortunately we lost a lot of players, we're down to 3-5 at the moment including me, we cannot play leauge this way. So I would like to announce the removal of Port Llast from league due to inactivity.
Port Llast still has non-league members so we'll stick around.
Thanks to everyone and good luck where ever you may go.
[Removal] Port Llast - Nude For Satan - 05-12-2014
Seriel, Is there any way PL can be saved? The 12-team competition format, and a stable set of teams, would be preferable to introducing a BYE. Maybe there are some player resources still to be tapped out there, or maybe there might be some good souls benching elsewhere who would swap for the good of the competition.
Of course that's up to you, and I'm sure you've worked hard to avoid this. Thank you for bringing Port Llast along as far as you have, Last season's AML champs, no less!
Just sad to see any team fold
[Removal] Port Llast - Law - 05-12-2014
Sad to see this happening, pro teams should split up a bit so a few more squads with a chance get started!
[Removal] Port Llast - SK+ - 05-12-2014
I was looking for recruits for the past few weeks but everywhere you go everyone seems to have a squad these days.
Unfortunately, during that time none of our rostered members was online even once when I am around at least and never to matches.
If I saw any other way I would take it but it seems that this is a classic case of a squad that seems solid at the beginning but headed for
a huge crash due to inactivity.
Currently the only members that are active, still never practice together are:
Ninespike
THC
Tweeg
and myself, you cannot run a league squad with 4 members where there's a cycle of 1 of us whom cannot show up for a match.
If we somehow can get an influx to double our roster size I'd feel fine with staying in the competition but otherwise it's better to kill it right now.
[Removal] Port Llast - 7th - 05-12-2014
Quote:<div>
Sad to see this happening, pro teams should split up a bit so a few more squads with a chance get started!
</div>
if other teams split up this will hapen to them. Hence why we have a roster size of 14 so we can avoid no shows. In an ideal world it would work, but this world is not ideal and not everyone can show every weekend for a 50 year old spaceship shooter game.
[Removal] Port Llast - Tunahead - 05-13-2014
Quote:<div>
you cannot run a league squad with 4 members where there's a cycle of 1 of us whom cannot show up for a match.
</div>
Sure you can, just ask EGO for tips
[Removal] Port Llast - Captor - 05-13-2014
Tuna, we've showed 3 players now for the last two games, so we've failed on it, with our (5 man active squad).
SFE game was postponed tho.
In conclusion: You need atleast over 6 players (active) to make 95% sure that even 4 show for the game.
Slowly we'r going to smaller amount of squads each season, and seeing the league die. Only way to rescue league is to start new squads and recruit new players on them.
[Removal] Port Llast - Law - 05-14-2014
7th, beastfu is starting solely to provide other new squads a chance at actually moving up in the leagues and having decent and competitive matches, and I plan on starting a squad next season to do so too. I don't quite think you understand exactly how disturbing it is for AML/IML players who get a few good match ups per season, if not just get demolished by stacked pro teams?
[Removal] Port Llast - Caerbannog - 05-14-2014
Quote:<div>
7th, beastfu is starting solely to provide other new squads a chance at actually moving up in the leagues and having decent and competitive matches, and I plan on starting a squad next season to do so too. I don't quite think you understand exactly how disturbing it is for AML/IML players who get a few good match ups per season, if not just get demolished by stacked pro teams?
</div>
7th was on Outlaws and is now on Critical Ass so he's on the other side of things; his squads only get 1-2 good matches per season too.
With every squad in one league, the middle-tier squads have the most exciting games.
But we don't really have the squads to split leagues before the playoffs
[Removal] Port Llast - 7th - 05-14-2014
Quote:<div>The thing is if you split up the so called "pro" squads more (and other squads) the league would flop. a lot of players can only play every other week at most and thus why we have a roster size of 14. if we only allowed 8-10 players you'd have more no shows. take ego for example. they have 5 active players and a few inactives which is still not enough. if you have 5 actives and 5 inactives you still might have no shows.
7th, beastfu is starting solely to provide other new squads a chance at actually moving up in the leagues and having decent and competitive matches, and I plan on starting a squad next season to do so too. I don't quite think you understand exactly how disturbing it is for AML/IML players who get a few good match ups per season, if not just get demolished by stacked pro teams?
</div>
Stacking in some way or form will happen no matter what, even if the rosters were smaller. the only difference would be that the half active people wouldn't play or be on the squad and not join another squad because they'd rather play with their friends. which would end up creating less people playing.
As caer said. It isn't just one way. Yes AML only get 2-4 good matches, but the pro teams only get 2-3 good matches as well. The only way we could make things more fair is by a draft and I highly doubt that would happen. People like squading/playing with certain people and if you f that up people will just no show because there is no reason to play with people you may not like.
On a side note, I think being a lower tear team would be best because they are able to play against opponents that are better and in doing so become better themselves. This allows for growth as where a pro team has very little growth occuring.
[Removal] Port Llast - Plutorus - 05-14-2014
Quote:<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Law" data-cid="290812" data-time="1400041385">
<div>
7th, beastfu is starting solely to provide other new squads a chance at actually moving up in the leagues and having decent and competitive matches, and I plan on starting a squad next season to do so too. I don't quite think you understand exactly how disturbing it is for AML/IML players who get a few good match ups per season, if not just get demolished by stacked pro teams?
</div>
7th was on Outlaws and is now on Critical Ass so he's on the other side of things; his squads only get 1-2 good matches per season too.
With every squad in one league, the middle-tier squads have the most exciting games.
But we don't really have the squads to split leagues before the playoffs
</div>
</blockquote>
I might agree that the top squads and bottom squads each have about 1 or 2 competitive matches per season, but I think there is a very distinct difference for the remaining games; dishing out beatings is a heck of a lot more tasty than receiving said beatings.
-Plut
[Removal] Port Llast - Plutorus - 05-14-2014
Fond memories with Port Llast. Sad to see you go, but I know you'll each catch on with new squads soon.
-Plut
[Removal] Port Llast - Law - 05-15-2014
Point well proven, 7th and Captor. My bad, I understand that it's no fun for the 'pro teams' to have a bad game by getting to literally spacerape some AML squads, but that's more fun than being the victims!
haha[Removal] Port Llast - Nude For Satan - 05-15-2014
Quote:<div>Caer, when was the last time Pro and AML had separate regular seasons?
But we don't really have the squads to split leagues before the playoffs
</div>
Quote:<div>For a player, yes. But not for a team. If any new talent actually develops, they will be taken from the nursery team by a top-tier team the next season.
On a side note, I think being a lower tear team would be best because they are able to play against opponents that are better and in doing so become better themselves. This allows for growth as where a pro team has very little growth occuring.
</div>
But, on the other hand, that's actually a handy, important role, for a lower-tier team to play, for the sake of the league as a whole. Just so long as they know their place.
[Removal] Port Llast - gold teeth - 05-16-2014
Would it be possible to arrange a season such that lower tier teams play each other twice in the season, only playing the higher tiered teams once, and obviously higher tiered teams play each other twice. This would extend the season I imagine but may make things more interesting? It is basically AML/PRO split but AML still faces PRO teams at least once.
[Removal] Port Llast - 7th - 05-17-2014
If there were 12 teams, I don't think it would be a bad Idea to make a split to 6 and 6 teams and have two different tiers, but the question would be who decides what team goes where and such. I have always liked the idea of a challenge league in which squads challenge each other and gain points for their team and such. Just like the Trench Wars system and then with those stats we can decide which teams are pro/aml for playoffs. This still poses the problem that our league isn't as active as it once was and it might be hard to get those games. i guess there could be slotted times on sundays where teams can challenge other teams and such, which would essentially be like a match too. We could fool around with length of games and such too.
[Removal] Port Llast - Nude For Satan - 05-17-2014
gold teeth, I like your proposition, although it extends season length dramatically (currently teams play each other once each regardless). Are you aware that a 12 team competition under your structure would amount to approximately 16 rounds? (currently it's 11 rounds) I'm sure you can remember the backlash on the 22-round structure Season 33 employed!
I do see it as viable but feel that the structure of the second half of the fixture would need to be made on the spot midseason, as opposed to being based on the finishing positions from the previous season. There are a number of Ins & Outs of teams each season. If you look at EGO now, Backarrow last season, which pool would they have been placed in? No, the decision would have to be made mid-season based on early performance.
More specifically, a fixture would be :
1) everyone play each other (11 rounds for a 12 team league, 9 rounds for a 10-team league), then
2) at the end of that half-season, those standings be used to split the teams into Pro and AML for another meeting each (4 or 5 more matches). At this point all slots on the ladder are still available to all teams: in a 12-team comp squads occupying positions 6 and 7 would play in different pools but have the opportunity to swap places come Play-offs.
7th, 6 & 6 in two separate divisions (Pro and AML) does sound like a good idea (7 and 7 would be where it would start to feel the most promising imo). I guess the concerns stem from :
1) teams should all be made aware of this more than one season prior, so that they know that prior season exactly what they are fighting for (division dependent on previous season),
2) Where do you put new teams? Should they have to fight from the ground up (start in AML) or be seeded based on such a thing as your challenge idea, and
3) does the concept continue to have merit when the tendency of teams to drop out is revisited during the season. Every one of the past three seasons has seen a net loss of one squad. This adulterates the benefit of the tier which ends up with 5 teams (a BYE every 5 weeks) and also throws the middle tier out of balance - if a top 6 team dropped out (it has happened), does Team #7 now have a case for being re-aligned with Pro division?
There's been 10 to 12 teams each of the last 3 seasons. I think it is in some way a people-power response to the fright when an eight-team league became 6 teams through dropouts, and was then followed by another six-team league the season after! That six-team season was the only one in I-don't-know-how-long where there weren't teams withdrawing midseason.
While not subspace-related, I have assisted leagues based on my own game for 17 seasons since 2001, including expanding upon inbuilt auto-fixturing coding. I have also been an historian for a 160-year old sport across all levels local to premier, including examining many different finals (play-offs) systems, and I can conclude one thing. None are perfect. Depending on what happens during, there is always a frailty enabling someone to get an easy ride or a fixture from hell. The only exception is the utterly boring (and dangerous for lowly attended competitions) concept of no-play-offs-at-all.
The tl;dr version is: Yeah it's a tough one, isn't it? It's my birthday so get to go as far off on a tangent as I want.
[Removal] Port Llast - 7th - 05-17-2014
This is just something that came to my mind. How about haveing team sizes around 20 (10 aml 10 pro), but having two seperate divisions. Sooo each squad has a aml and pro team where the captains can shift players up and down. This would reduce the number of teams, but it would be like merging a pro and aml team so that the players can play vs teams of the same strength. This would also reduce the number of no-shows. You could have rules like a player set as AML can only play 1 or 2 games for a pro team without being moved up to the pro status and we would would have to come up with clear rules on the shifting of players, but this could benefit teams by not having no shows and help teams play vs teams of the same level of skill and reduce player stealing (in a sense).
[Removal] Port Llast - SK+ - 05-17-2014
Quote:<div>
This is just something that came to my mind. How about haveing team sizes around 20 (10 aml 10 pro), but having two seperate divisions. Sooo each squad has a aml and pro team where the captains can shift players up and down. This would reduce the number of teams, but it would be like merging a pro and aml team so that the players can play vs teams of the same strength. This would also reduce the number of no-shows. You could have rules like a player set as AML can only play 1 or 2 games for a pro team without being moved up to the pro status and we would would have to come up with clear rules on the shifting of players, but this could benefit teams by not having no shows and help teams play vs teams of the same level of skill and reduce player stealing (in a sense).
</div>
Nobody is stopping squads from creating cadet squads...
[Removal] Port Llast - 7th - 05-18-2014
Quote:<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="7th Saga" data-cid="290879" data-time="1400332105">
<div>
This is just something that came to my mind. How about haveing team sizes around 20 (10 aml 10 pro), but having two seperate divisions. Sooo each squad has a aml and pro team where the captains can shift players up and down. This would reduce the number of teams, but it would be like merging a pro and aml team so that the players can play vs teams of the same strength. This would also reduce the number of no-shows. You could have rules like a player set as AML can only play 1 or 2 games for a pro team without being moved up to the pro status and we would would have to come up with clear rules on the shifting of players, but this could benefit teams by not having no shows and help teams play vs teams of the same level of skill and reduce player stealing (in a sense).
</div>
Nobody is stopping squads from creating cadet squads...
</div>
</blockquote>
I am not sure you are reading what I wrote. or understanding the main concept behind what i wrote.