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+--- Thread: Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM (/showthread.php?tid=1797)
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Nude For Satan - 03-24-2011
Bonuses. A specific function introduced into Chaos Zone. I believe the original bot line about it advised that to learn about the Bonus system, was to learn how to own.
There are clear problems with the Bonus system. Lame play loves bonuses <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' /> They are too easy to use, and can too easily turn the tables mid-fight. The player who is killing the most is racking them up, further expanding the gap between newbie and vet. While a winning player should indeed garner success, the gap is a bit too broad.
There are some current suggestions for changes to the Bonus system. I wanted to mention them here to see what thoughts were from the proles <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' /> (says me with my 1:8 w/l ratio!).
I invite your input. Are these great ideas, or crap ideas, but you have to say WHY. If possible, take both sides, the more "although, of course" statements, the more valuable your contributions can be.
I also invite you to add your own ideas. "How about if ..." will help make sense of it all. Again, try to take both sides. "I suppose however that ..." again would be of great value.
So, here it is. I hope I've got this right:
Price Hike
Its been suggested to make the stuff we buy with bonuses, more expensive. I don't know the details, but to make stuff up, imagine that a Booster cost 6 or 10 bonus, instead of, what is it currently? 3?
I've personally only ever bought three things with Bonus points; Booster (3), Defense (thought it was 9, someone said 10), and Rabbit (10, I think). The rep seems pretty expensive as it is. The Rabbit could probably be higher. The Booster is dirt cheap and really should be much more expensive. You get three bursts and three thors ffs, 1 of each should probably be worth 3 Bonus points alone.
So the intention is to increase the cost of use.
My vote: I like this one. You should have to carefully consider your bonus stocks any time you want to pick up some goodies.
Use In Safe
The concept is to restrict use of Bonuses to be available only if you are in a safe zone. Too often a player turns tables on a duel mid-fight by grabbing a Booster, or a Speed to rocket them away from a concerted effort to trap a high bounty. if these could only be used while in safe, it can kind of make the fight a bit more 'honest'.
This might annoy a lot of people. Both the high bounty and the people professional chasing it can be reliant on their bonuses. Speed is vital to the suicide weasel, err, hunter. I fear this one mightn't be too popular.
My vote: I *generally* agree with this one. I agree it *does* attend to some lame use of Bonus Points, I'm just afraid it might create a spate of Safe Hugging.
So those are the two items on the table.
I have two more ideas, but I'm not sure if they are even implementable. Maybe the game coding won't allow them:
1. Can't use bonuses until you're greened to 100. My intention here is to prevent suicidal hunters performing sneak attacks, especially those coming straight out of spec where they've determined your location a moment beforehand.
I really can't see any downside to this as an idea, but as I say, it mightn't be possible to implement.
2. Can't use bonuses if below full energy. I may not have thought this one through completely, but its just an idea. Again, not sure if possible.
Don't worry, you can use the things you've bonused, but you can't bonus new ones, until you're at full energy. If you are going to make a mistake and fly into a corner where someone's shooting at you, then you shouldn't have the opportunity to bonus bursts AND use them. Think ahead, bonus earlier. If you're gonna get hit with stuff and rocket away, you shouldn't have the right to save your Bonus points to the last moment. Commit to buying Speed before you enter into the fight. Being able to Bonus at last moment and use those specials within a millisecond, well its like having a caddy.
So I'd like to suggest those as well.
Open to all discussion, let everybody know what your thoughts are! Can someone in play today (my time zone sucks) bring attention to this thread 'cause its likely to interest a few people.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Ethylene! - 03-24-2011
[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1300929702' post='273951']
Bonuses. A specific function introduced into Chaos Zone. I believe the original bot line about it advised that to learn about the Bonus system, was to learn how to own....
[/quote]
You forgot one really important option...no bonuses at all, which is my vote.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Nude For Satan - 03-24-2011
I did indeed forget that option. Actually I thought about it some time after I posted, and expected you'd remind me.
I'm generally ok with bonuses if they're handled right, but no bonuses at all is definitely a valid preference.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Jazz - 03-24-2011
[quote name='Ethylene!' timestamp='1300938490' post='273954']
[quote name='Nude For Satan' timestamp='1300929702' post='273951']
Bonuses. A specific function introduced into Chaos Zone. I believe the original bot line about it advised that to learn about the Bonus system, was to learn how to own....
[/quote]
You forgot one really important option...no bonuses at all, which is my vote.
[/quote]
lol <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='8)' /> i like this option !
I never really bother with bonuses ..... thats why we have GREENS. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' />
However, if the option is to change the way theyre used, i think they should ALL cost alot more, and only available in SAFE ZONES. NFS already pointed out the reasons why this would reduce annoyance <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' />
Theyre just TOO easy to take advantage of right now. And hunters wont be as annoyed for not having them, if the prey theyre chasing is also unable to acquire them on a whim..... <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pardon.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Nude For Satan - 03-24-2011
Quote:And hunters wont be as annoyed for not having them, if the prey theyre chasing is also unable to acquire them on a whim
I agree. Hunters really only use bonuses to stick with bonus-using runners. They generally cancel each other out.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - fresh - 03-24-2011
out with the bonuses, out with the ranks, imho.
i think it's better to focus on giving casual and new players something to do when they enter (flagging, a ball game, an EG-style King of the hill, etc) than to just heap advantages on the daily players. they're gonna log in anyways.. we hope. its the casual and tourist players we want to trap.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Capt ARGH! - 03-24-2011
the only 2 bonuses i use are bonus booster and bonus antiwarp.
i don't think they are too expensive. i usually just hit booster when i have 2B and use that as fast as i can.!
there's something to be said for the fun of using the bonus booster in an enclosed part of the map. recently (when flags were up-grading) players kept coming at me (i had the flag) and i made about 7 kills in a row and boosted 3 times in 3 mins. nothing more fun than that.
i would like to see a max-out bonus, like tuneup but it gives you all the weapons NOT specials ie it would max out your energy, your bullets, and make them bounce, max bombs, give you stealth (and cloak if youââ¬â¢re a spider), give you X and anti. that would be a good change.
in short I don't think they are too expensive.
ps my favourite was devour.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - RenderGod - 03-24-2011
I also would like to see NO BONUSES. Why do we have em with 4 billion greens?
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - dnclarke - 03-25-2011
I would vote for no bonuses as well..
I would be ok with a price hike as well... I would also vote for a reset on your bonuses during each reset..
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Caerbannog - 03-25-2011
Regardless of price, safe zone or not, etc. you guys missed (the obvious fix):
Tie bonuses to streaks. You need 500 points for 1 bonus, you need 3 bonus for !bonus speed or !bonus booster, that's 1500 points. That's a lot of 70 bounty kills.
Streaks already give you super and shields, at 10 and 35 kills or something. Those are always fun, when timed correctly.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Nude For Satan - 03-25-2011
I can always get Bonus points, it only takes me 500 pts each.
I can achieve that in a streak of 40 straight losses and 1 500 pt kill.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Jazz - 03-25-2011
[quote name='Capt ARGH!' timestamp='1301006010' post='273981']
i would like to see a max-out bonus, like tuneup but it gives you all the weapons NOT specials ie it would max out your energy, your bullets, and make them bounce, max bombs, give you stealth (and cloak if youââ¬â¢re a spider), give you X and anti. that would be a good change.
[/quote]
LOL capt <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':p' /> I never really buy bonuses, but if we had the one you suggested, id be buying it all the time ! <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':yahoo:' />
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - fresh - 03-25-2011
[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301065000' post='274009']
[quote name='Capt ARGH!' timestamp='1301006010' post='273981']
i would like to see a max-out bonus, like tuneup but it gives you all the weapons NOT specials ie it would max out your energy, your bullets, and make them bounce, max bombs, give you stealth (and cloak if youââ¬â¢re a spider), give you X and anti. that would be a good change.
[/quote]
LOL capt <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> I never really buy bonuses, but if we had the one you suggested, id be buying it all the time ! <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />[/quote]
yes this would be a great bonus. i would spend all 50 of my unused bonuses on this. ideal price like 2 or 3?
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - hallucination - 03-25-2011
[quote name='Capt ARGH!' timestamp='1301006010' post='273981']
i would like to see a max-out bonus, like tuneup but it gives you all the weapons NOT specials ie it would max out your energy, your bullets, and make them bounce, max bombs, give you stealth (and cloak if youââ¬â¢re a spider), give you X and anti. that would be a good change.
[/quote]
heh I already had this new feature ready to release when Nude started this thread. I called it 'fullship' (!bonus fullship).
[color="#1C2837"][size="2"][quote name='Caerbannog']Tie bonuses to streaks[/quote][/size][/color]
Caer -- I *think* you mean that bonus points should only accrue for kills when they meet the same threshold that streaks have (>75 bty)...? (I can think of at least three diff ways to interpret "tie bonuses to streaks")
I'm not surprised to see vets advocating to get rid of bonuses and (particularly) ranks. They break the game design of Chaos imo. See item I.h in my Chaos Philosophy doc (which I mostly wrote in 2002) [url="http://chaos.sscentral.com/?page=chaosphilosophy"]http://chaos.sscentr...chaosphilosophy[/url]
Making bonuses only available from Safe would at least take that advantage out of real-time game play. I think launching 120 bursts in a row (which I could do right now with my 80 bonuses) is a game-wrecking ability/terrible game design. Similarly, if you've been hunting someone and have caused them to use up their toys, they shouldn't be able to just prize themselves new ones in an instant.
--hallu
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Capt ARGH! - 03-27-2011
Quote:heh I already had this new feature ready to release when Nude started this thread. I called it 'fullship' (!bonus fullship).
please make it cheap! fuck greening in its ass!
1 or 2B.?
ps this idea of the vet vs the noob and the bonuses make the gap between the vet and the noob greater.
look guys, how the hell can you make that kind of difference small enough. it's 10 years of game play vs 10 days. the guy whos played for 10 years is gonna beat the 10 day old player regardless of the bonus system.
perhaps it DOES make a difference. perhaps it DOES make the gap wider, this is speculation. I'll give you more speculation: the big difference is the years the vet has been playing, not his bonus booster.
if the bonus system does widen this gap then surely it must be only by a tiny % compared to the massive gap there already.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Capefire - 03-28-2011
[quote name='Capt ARGH!' timestamp='1301006010' post='273981']
the only 2 bonuses i use are bonus booster and bonus antiwarp.
[/quote]
I agree with Capt. I only use Bonus Booster and Bonus Speed. I don't feel that it is a disadvantage. And really I don't even get that many to use. This sure sounds like this is punishing people that turret. But also hunters would not be able to buy anything either if they were to remove the bonuses.
Another issue why do mines only last 60 seconds now?
I love this game, my buddy got me involved years ago and I sucked big time, but I kept coming back to learn more and more and I am more skilled today. Maybe if SS was an IPad app or something it would attract more people.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Ethylene! - 03-29-2011
[quote name='Capefire' timestamp='1301286706' post='274108']
[quote name='Capt ARGH!' timestamp='1301006010' post='273981']
the only 2 bonuses i use are bonus booster and bonus antiwarp.
[/quote]
Another issue why do mines only last 60 seconds now?
[/quote]
Didn't you get the memo about the mine timer or read the news.txt file as to why the timer was reduced? Oh, wait, none of us go that memo, nevermind.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - hallucination - 03-30-2011
[quote name='Ethylene!' timestamp='1301390369' post='274141']
Didn't you get the memo about the mine timer or read the news.txt file as to why the timer was reduced? Oh, wait, none of us go that memo, nevermind.
[/quote]
You might try rereading this comment you responded to over two weeks ago:
[url="http://forums.ssgn.net/topic/25596-current-rabbit-flag/page__view__findpost__p__273547"]http://forums.ssgn.n...post__p__273547[/url]
--hallu
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - Caerbannog - 03-30-2011
[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1301084185' post='274022']
[quote name='Capt ARGH!' timestamp='1301006010' post='273981']
i would like to see a max-out bonus, like tuneup but it gives you all the weapons NOT specials ie it would max out your energy, your bullets, and make them bounce, max bombs, give you stealth (and cloak if youââ¬â¢re a spider), give you X and anti. that would be a good change.
[/quote]
heh I already had this new feature ready to release when Nude started this thread. I called it 'fullship' (!bonus fullship).
[color="#1C2837"][size="2"][quote name='Caerbannog']Tie bonuses to streaks[/quote][/size][/color]
Caer -- I *think* you mean that bonus points should only accrue for kills when they meet the same threshold that streaks have (>75 bty)...? (I can think of at least three diff ways to interpret "tie bonuses to streaks")
I'm not surprised to see vets advocating to get rid of bonuses and (particularly) ranks. They break the game design of Chaos imo. See item I.h in my Chaos Philosophy doc (which I mostly wrote in 2002) [url="http://chaos.sscentral.com/?page=chaosphilosophy"]http://chaos.sscentr...chaosphilosophy[/url]
Making bonuses only available from Safe would at least take that advantage out of real-time game play. I think launching 120 bursts in a row (which I could do right now with my 80 bonuses) is a game-wrecking ability/terrible game design. Similarly, if you've been hunting someone and have caused them to use up their toys, they shouldn't be able to just prize themselves new ones in an instant.
--hallu
[/quote]
Oh, I don't mind which streak you interpret it as so much, as long as it is somehow session based instead of gathering 50,000 points which converts to manymany bonuses in one reset, then being able to use them for say, a kill death ratio run in the next. That makes no sense in my head.
I'd opt for all kills myself, the same the bot spams as Godlike! at 38:0.
Prospective Changes to the BONUS SYSTEM - hallucination - 03-30-2011
Thx for clarifying Caer -- you help point out the fundamental game design problems of bonuses with regard to Chaos.
It brings up another possibility -- bonuses being reset based on some interval (session, day, week, reset)? Bonuses _need_ to be reset at some point. Thoughts on that?
--hallu