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The case begins with the banning of a player named Joon.
According to the story, there is a player named Axe, and another named Joon..
Joon said something Axe didn't like, and had Joon banned from SS because of emotional distress.
That appears to be the entire case lol
Now, we can't expect Axe to understand anything about free speech because he isnt an American like most of us are, so we can naturally expect this sorta thing from people like him (turd in the punchbowl).
Next, the case takes a further turn when the admin became sympathetic to Axes cause, they banned Joon.
So, it seems they are complicit in this thing.. and we had all better watch out.. or else we may get banned too.. that is new to Chaos.. and im not happy about it.
The truth about the situation is how this starts... we have a cool game... and crybaby newbs come in.. influence the staff.. through sheer pestering if nothing else and changes are made that effect all of us.
I have fought this battle 1000 times in other venues... but this time im not.. im going to ride this thing silently from now on..
But you people have a choice to make... the added interventionalism on the part of newbs and the staff..
or continue to fight for SVS
Resist changes to the longest running online game in history.. apparently we are doing something right..or else none of this would be here.
[url="http://youtu.be/rVXtXbfuBek"]http://youtu.be/rVXtXbfuBek[/url]
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Freedom of speech is to protect you from the governement not a private entity.
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08-20-2012, 12:43 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-20-2012, 12:53 AM by Death Incarnate.)
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
[media]http://youtu.be/vZby1ADu9XU[/media]
no text was edited.. just the addition of the video
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If what you said is true, and Axe isn't American, then it's a pretty good bet that he's not a member of Congress either.
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He has said on many occasions he is a Canadian, i dont think its a secret.
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People should remember that the world itself is unamerican... they dont understand of care about the rights we have discovered and can't unlearn...
the majority of the worlds population is not free
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08-20-2012, 03:22 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-20-2012, 03:37 AM by Lone Outlaw.)
Well i've been banned from dsb for 24 years, and more recently until 2013 because of text that i type. Mind you my text is not harassment (Especially in a public chat/venue, it's not even specifically directed at anyone to be harassment) My text is nothing that can't be ?ignored, and i never change names to evade ignores, because im not desperate for a specific person to read what im typing.
As well i've rarely if ever broken zone rules, maybe the Team killing rule in the past? And there are whole Zone owners and Sysops and even NET OPS, who have done far worse actions than me, yet they deem text to be worse than their actions. When text doesn't harm anyone especially when the game comes with an ?ignore function.
I've never been racist, or given people a reason to ban me other than the fact that they dislike me or my name.. But there is no rule saying we need to be liked by everyone. Ultimately i've been netbanned twice for the same reasons. That's just how it is, don't expect anything different from ANY zone, or anyone in charge. (Though Hockey zone, and Devastation, seem like more free places as far as people not trying to control you, own you, or impose their belief system on you) For example HyperSpace has a strong belief system in their rules, however at least they are direct and upfront about it.
Was Joon Netbanned? or just zone banned? If it was a netban then that's a serious issue. (You remarked Joon could no longer play ss anymore)
Also as a side note, america, or first world countries, have less freedom than third world countries. You have it kind of backwards if you think America is more free, than Rewanda. In a third world country if someone does something to you. You solve it yourself, you go there and beat the guy up. That's freedom. What most americans lean more towards is what they mistake for freedom, which is the law, and what is familiar, what is safe. In the end you have more freedom inside your house, than you do in any society. Most people reject freedom, and don't even realize it and then they ironically advocate in the support of freedom. Real freedom requires alot of intelligence and skill to survive in.
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This thing really got started with me. j00n was on and had been saying some very questionable things to axe.
Ill put in my 2 cents.
Not trying to take sides or even put you down DI, but this is what happaned when i was logged on.
I am unsure if axe ever approached hallu with any of this, as i said before I was the one to FIRST approach hallu about j00n.
Quote:According to the story, there is a player named Axe, and another named Joon..
Joon said something Axe didn't like, and had Joon banned from SS because of emotional distress.
That appears to be the entire case lol
Quote:Next, the case takes a further turn when the admin became sympathetic to Axes cause, they banned Joon.
This is not the case at all.
I was tabbed in ss for quite a while doing whatever i was doing, probably code. j00n and axe were playing and going back and forth with chat. j00n made some very vulgar comments about axe and his son. Things that j00n said included: his son's death, sodomy, and some other stuff. That's pretty much all that stuck in my head. he did say alot more =).
As far as why I brought it up to hallu ( this is not a reflection on any staff member in chaos: this is my own thoughts on the matter)
99% of any harassment made in public can be solved by ?ignore. seldom do you get someone that goes crazy and starts name changing and pming a player, but it happens. then you have to consider a form of a ban. I mentioned to hallu that j00n's behavior should be considered for a ban on the basis that his chat was so vulgar and just in bad taste (it's saying alot when i say that, because i myself have spewed out all kinds of garbage, but never this personal and never that vulgar).
I was surprised at axe and how he took it. he played it cool and just gave his usual brush-offs to j00n. (i don't know how he was after this, i was not online for all of it)
So my problem was this: if someone is saying all this stuff in pub, exceedingly out of normal trash-talk range, do we tell axe and everyone to ?ignore j00n, or should we do something else about it. honestly I suggested to hallu that j00n be banned, but the first step is always a silencing =). There were also other issues after that whole ordeal, but I am simply posting info about the time I was on and my feelings about it. Like I said before, I am unsure if axe ever approached hallu, but I am 100% on the fact that I was the one to point out j00n to hallu and suggested he ban/warn him.
forgivers my lack of spelling/grammar I r half asleep. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' />
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I'd like to ask you a question... how do you know he even HAS a son..
think about it.. i have been playing for years and im a complete mystery.. no one knows about me, what i do, or my family life..
only two people have any clue about me and what i do... they would be nerf, and nude... even then they only have 1% of the picture.
so why is he parading his family around infront of strangers... no one else does that.
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08-20-2012, 01:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-20-2012, 01:28 PM by Lone Outlaw.)
So i guess he wasn't netbanned. Well it all depends how long a zone ban was. Usually if it's just a week, that's normal. If it goes into months or years, then again that's an issue and it means the mods took it personally.
Of course if choas really wanted to focus on doing the right thing, they could create a bot that recognizes players by ip and alias, and will auto gag that player when they login. Making it impossible to evade the gag by signing off and on. With something like this, bans wouldn't be necessary at all. In fact being gagged in a zone is worse than any ban, especially if the gag lasts more than a day. People would voluntarily not enter the zone because they would want to talk to friends, or other players. But the point is, if they did want to enter the zone and play, they still could. Banning is archaic and wrong in my opinion for anyone but a hacker or a cheater.
Also i know something of axe, and axe is flamboiyant, he is somewhat of an actor, a flim flam man. You shouldn't take anything he says seriously. We used to have similar people in DSB, one was named Dirty Jackal, He would pretend he was younger than he actually is, talk like he is an idiot when he wasn't, and make up stories about his brother dying etc, and forum posts, and try convince people it was true.. said he took vitamin pills, and drugs and so on, very very dramatic. He was also European.. etc.
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Honestly, It it is irrelevant if Axe has a son or not. I saw this exchange personally. What was being said both in pub, and most likely private as well, has no business in this game and was clearly crossing the line. Why are people surprised when they get what they have coming?
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[quote name='Lone Outlaw' timestamp='1345468983' post='283743']
So i guess he wasn't netbanned. Well it all depends how long a zone ban was. Usually if it's just a week, that's normal. If it goes into months or years, then again that's an issue and it means the mods took it personally.
Of course if choas really wanted to focus on doing the right thing, they could create a bot that recognizes players by ip and alias, and will auto gag that player when they login. Making it impossible to evade the gag by signing off and on. With something like this, bans wouldn't be necessary at all. In fact being gagged in a zone is worse than any ban, especially if the gag lasts more than a day. People would voluntarily not enter the zone because they would want to talk to friends, or other players. But the point is, if they did want to enter the zone and play, they still could. Banning is archaic and wrong in my opinion for anyone but a hacker or a cheater.
[/quote]
Not big into commenting publically on bans but a couple of corrections....
It was not long at all, not even a week as you suggest but in fact it was only for a day (24 hours).
And funny that you mention doing the right thing because it was not a "ban ban", it was exactly as you descibed... a bot imposed silence that auto gags the player regardless of ip/alias. In staff/bot speak it was a "shutup ban" so sometimes that gets confused and people think a player was banned when they were actually just silenced for a short period.
Also, before everyone goes off on how nazi the Chaos staff are, this is a very rare incident.
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Well i think PM's or squad chats rarely if ever should be moderated. In that case the player needs to ignore the other player. I would only think if someone was evading ignores it would be an issue.
Passplay, im not accusing staff or chaos of doing anything wrong, as i don't have any facts, but i was just giving my opinion on bans. It's good that the ban didn't exceed a week, and generous that it was only 24 hours. Also im confused about a shutup ban. Does that mean he was never banned? and just gagged for 24 hours? if so that's even cooler.. as it was the more appropriate action to take..
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Well it looks like we got to the bottom of this one lol
I'm considering the case closed.
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[quote name='Lone Outlaw' timestamp='1345480880' post='283755']
It's good that the ban didn't exceed a week, and generous that it was only 24 hours. Also im confused about a shutup ban. Does that mean he was never banned? and just gagged for 24 hours? if so that's even cooler.. as it was the more appropriate action to take..
[/quote]
Correct, he was never "banned", only gagged for 24 hours.
Like you mentioned, true actual bans in the manner you speak of (not allowed to enter the zone) are reserved for hackers/cheaters and a couple of very rare circumstances.
P.S. All good man, I didn't think you were accusing staff or anything.
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[quote name='passplay' timestamp='1345492348' post='283761']
[quote name='Lone Outlaw' timestamp='1345480880' post='283755']
It's good that the ban didn't exceed a week, and generous that it was only 24 hours. Also im confused about a shutup ban. Does that mean he was never banned? and just gagged for 24 hours? if so that's even cooler.. as it was the more appropriate action to take..
[/quote]
Like you mentioned, true actual bans in the manner you speak of (not allowed to enter the zone) are reserved for hackers/cheaters and a couple of very rare circumstances.
[/quote]
Too bad that's not true in all cases. Maybe I'm just a "rare circumstance"
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[quote name='Death Incarnate' timestamp='1345423396' post='283720']
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
[media]http://youtu.be/vZby1ADu9XU[/media]
no text was edited.. just the addition of the video
[/quote]
Like I said the first amendment protects you from the governement not a private entity.
If I came to your house and stood on your front lawn with a sign that read "Death Incarnate is a douche bag" does the first amendment mean you stop me from doing that?
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08-25-2012, 08:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2012, 08:32 PM by Death Incarnate.)
<img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' /> well you should never scream theatre in a crowded fire...
[url="http://youtu.be/-4SnIJJCH8w"]http://youtu.be/-4SnIJJCH8w[/url]
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