How Can We *MAKE* Someone Play This Game?

[Nude For Satan]

How do you get someone, who is used to cutting edge - or at least recent - gaming technology, to like Subspace.



To get someone to go have a look, not to mention to play, come back, and repeat, is an immense achievement, very difficult.



Fellow Aussie fenrix got four mates to join once, was seen out east near the safes showing them all the ropes (telling them stuff through something like Teamspeak, I think). Of these, Soothsayer II came back for one or two more visits, then he disappeared.



Various folks here have been known to get their kids online to have a play. I know Blackers is one, but there seem to be a few here and there. Whether there are stayers amongst them, well, who can say.



Every now and then I've plugged the game on a major sporting forum (in Aust) and had zero luck. One guy said it looked like StarCon, that's all I got. ( link: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&postid=20600925 )



Has anyone actually had some luck, said to a friend, you should try this! They've tried, and they've stayed?



'cause it usually feels like I'm on a hiding to nothing.

[flared]

i've showed it to pretty much all my friends, most of them played for about a month or so. even my friends who showed the game to me have quit as well

[Caerbannog]

My brother saw his friend playing SubSpace. My brother paid said friend the standard Internet fee at the time to play on his computer, as we had no Internet. My brother and my friend, and another friend who had tried SubSpace, then talked about the game without me ever having seen it.

The conversations were remotely like this:

"Did you try to just lob them in a javelin and run away? it's so fun and you never die!"

"Yeah but I liked terrier and just flying at them more."

"Those damn spiders got me all the time, I never find the key for x"



...

Repeat for a while and I'm all like whoa what's all this? Sounds cool and awesome, maybe I'll try this game once I finish editing this Duke Nukem 3D level.

Then again, back in the day I could log on at pretty much any time and find A Koala Bear linebombing and 40 to 90 other people flying around.



Nowadays, you'd have to start from a 5pm on a Sunday warzone event for guaranteed action. Then get them hooked enough for them to come back.

[Yupa]

If you know much about Unix systems or programming, you can help get Discretion & ASSS into Linux repos.

[Nude For Satan]

[quote name='Yupa' timestamp='1301988717' post='274416']

If you know much about [color="#FF0000"]Unix[/color] systems or programming, you can help get [color="#FF0000"]Discretion[/color] & [color="#FF0000"]ASSS[/color] into [color="#FF0000"]Linux[/color] [color="#FF0000"]repos[/color].

[/quote]



Sadly, I know so little about Unix systems, or programming (other than QBasic), that I don't even understand your post! I've highlighted the bits I don't understand.



Edit: I am looking at that page now. I am pathetically uneducated about sources and clients etc, so I don't really understand what this would do that is different from what the current Subspace/Continuum thingy. So there'sd probably something really cool in there! Does this mean it can go on those fancy cellphones some people have with games on them?

[L.C.]

I didn't read this thread, so I am replying straight to the thread title.



You can't make anyone play this 15 year old game. If someone wants to play it and sees enough worth in it for that, then they'll give it a go. Making people play the game is mercenary and means your plan and strategy is absolute utter fail.

[Nude For Satan]

That's an extremely valid point LC and I wish I had thought to sufficiently word my thread in a manner that didn't suggest approaches that might in some places be considered tantamount to illegal. I don't know what I was thinking. [color="#FFFFFF"]Jesus Christ.[/color]

[Cheese]

usually this would be the part where i say i showed it to all my friends, but then i remembered that i never had any

[Nude For Satan]

[quote name='Cheese' timestamp='1302007288' post='274420']

usually this would be the part where i say i showed it to all my friends, but then i remembered that i never had any

[/quote]

Hehe I have none now 'cause I disowned them for not playing Subspace!



On a brighter note, good work "Mittens Da Bunny" for plugging SS on his radio station, KIK FM (Darwin, Australia). Subspace appears amongst the rotating banner ads. Baby steps!



http://www.kikfm.com.au/

[Gadianton]

You need 3 things.



1. Fresh Meat

i was talking to my brother about this issue last summer. he plays a first person shooter game. he and i both feel that for a game to grow you do need a steady flow of new people into a game. as soon as you loose that steady flow of newbies the game begins to die. ok no shockers here. here is the interesting point. the reason why you need new people is what my brother calls the concept of "Fresh Meat". even relatively new people who have been playing a few weeks need some "Fresh Meat"... newbies to kill. Just like in the ocean, there is always some one smaller then you and some one bigger then you in the food chain. The BIG thing that subspace needs is this "fresh Meat" in the food chain. well what do you do if you cant get the new people? its simple you have to artificially create them. What we need is 20-30 bots playing the game at all time. These relatively low intelligent bots programmed to fight in different styles from mining, gunning, and running suicide missions into the nearest ship. This basic building block in the food chain gives REAL newbies some thing to shoot at and to be able to kill. As it is right now, a newbie joins and gets 1 kill and 50 losses fighting pro players.



The ocean would die if the bottom of the food chain died, and the same thing has been happening to subspace for years. the bottom of the food chain has been broken for a long time.



2. The client, websites, and game help files are out of date and old. For example we could create some you tube videos for newbies showing them some basic parts of the game. i know its easy for me to download and install however compared to the new games that are out subspace takes a lot of work for a new person to figure out whats going on.



3. Real Meat

After you build this basic food chain, simplify the install and setup, we all need to do a huge push to advertise to get REAL people into the game. lets say for example in the month of June we set a goal to put a banner on every website we can, hand out 1,000 flyers, hold LAN parties at peoples houses. we need a huge push as a community to introduce new people to the game.



Ok those are my 3 ideas. Let the ripping and complaining and criticizing begin. o and by the way when you get ready to post how building a bot is impossible. its not. i have one built. my bot recognizes its energy level, its current location on the map, direction he is facing, what toys he has. he can use any toy he has and can fire weapons. he can also tell what direction an enemy ship is.

[Nude For Satan]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302011787' post='274423']

You need 3 things.



1. Fresh Meat

i was talking to my brother about this issue last summer. he plays a first person shooter game. he and i both feel that for a game to grow you do need a steady flow of new people into a game. as soon as you loose that steady flow of newbies the game begins to die. ok no shockers here. here is the interesting point. the reason why you need new people is what my brother calls the concept of "Fresh Meat". even relatively new people who have been playing a few weeks need some "Fresh Meat"... newbies to kill. Just like in the ocean, there is always some one smaller then you and some one bigger then you in the food chain. The BIG thing that subspace needs is this "fresh Meat" in the food chain. well what do you do if you cant get the new people? its simple you have to artificially create them. What we need is 20-30 bots playing the game at all time. These relatively low intelligent bots programmed to fight in different styles from mining, gunning, and running suicide missions into the nearest ship. This basic building block in the food chain gives REAL newbies some thing to shoot at and to be able to kill. As it is right now, a newbie joins and gets 1 kill and 50 losses fighting pro players.



The ocean would die if the bottom of the food chain died, and the same thing has been happening to subspace for years. the bottom of the food chain has been broken for a long time.



2. The client, websites, and game help files are out of date and old. For example we could create some tube videos for newbies showing them some basic parts of the game. i know its easy for me to download and install however compared to the new games that are out subspace takes a lot of work for a new person to figure out whats going on.



3. Real Meat

After you build this basic food chain, simplify the install and setup, we all need to do a huge push to advertise to get REAL people into the game. lets say for example in the month of June we set a goal to put a banner on every website we can, hand out 1,000 flyers, hold LAN parties at peoples houses. we need a huge push as a community to introduce new people to the game.



Ok those are my 3 ideas. Let the ripping and complaining and criticizing begin. o and by the way when you get ready to post how building a bot is impossible. its not. i have one built. my bot recognizes its energy level, its current location on the map, direction he is facing, what toys he has. he can use any toy he has and can fire weapons. he can also tell what direction an enemy ship is.

[/quote]



I love the idea of bot ships. I really do. I don't think its without a lot of logistical and ethical issues, but I agree that AI bots for newbie practice is a concept that should be pursued if possible. I worry about putting the bots in the public arena, as vets could work out exploits that might come back to bite us in the butt. I worry about having a newbie arena, as this can defeat the purpose of getting more population in, in the first place. I am not across this whole scenario but I'd love to see a newbie section of pub arena. There IS room around the outside. In fact, the main arena is pretty darn big for our current pop, so why not shave a bit more off, add a parallel newb section, with AI bots, with newbs invited but not mandatory (maybe mandatory until first kill, I dunno), and restrict vet access. Yes, more issues again, a trolling vet may fabricate an identity to get in there and maul. Well, its just a concept.



I agree re the client. We are plugging an old game here, that kids these days are wont to sneer at. But its a brilliant game and deserves its place. You're suggesting looking into types of tutorials. I don't see why this can't be done. The actual download to be in a zone transition is actually a tiny bit murky and needs clear explanation. Then, once in, yes, how to play. Well, that's in many ways up to people like me. As a staff member, I am meant to help advise new players on the basics. Of course, any vet can do this too. Be careful with obliterating the new names. Offer some advice to them. If it turns out to be some vet in disguise .... bah ahh well, next one. You're thinking tutorial videos etc. Yes maybe, haven't thought much on that.



Real meat. Advertise the damn thing, excuse my french. Banner advertising is a great idea. As stated above, although small fry, Mittens' banner is greatly appreciated in my opinion. Tell your forum buddies, tell your facebook buddies. When I said "make" and "abduct" of course I'm using hyperbole. I mean, simply, annoy them a bit. On Facebook, whenever someone says "wanna get the new [insert stupid new game here] but not sure if its worth the time/money", I respond to them saying "Subspace: free, quick, best ever" or something ribbing like that. You never know, it might work. Always add the getcontinuum link wherever you do this, frame an image if possible too. Every time anyone's in an internet gaming cafe, ask at the desk if they have Subpace Continuum. Act surprised when they ask what that is. Then tell them. Use its selling points: First ever MMOG, oldest one and still running today. Give them the link. Probably should develop a poster so that if a cafe ever says "cool we'll add it" you can give them a poster to stick on their desk or wall. I know, I;m at the point of prattling, but there's something in this, I'm sure of it. Like you said, fliers, well for the cafe's anyway.



And re your comment about AI bots being possible. I know this first hand. I was in Devastation zone once where they were testing an AI bot and it was massacreing me. I'm worried about giving them too much power. We've all seen the Terminator, yes?

[Jazz]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302011787' post='274423']

You need 3 things.



1. Fresh Meat

i was talking to my brother about this issue last summer. he plays a first person shooter game. he and i both feel that for a game to grow you do need a steady flow of new people into a game. as soon as you loose that steady flow of newbies the game begins to die. ok no shockers here. here is the interesting point. the reason why you need new people is what my brother calls the concept of "Fresh Meat". even relatively new people who have been playing a few weeks need some "Fresh Meat"... newbies to kill. Just like in the ocean, there is always some one smaller then you and some one bigger then you in the food chain. The BIG thing that subspace needs is this "fresh Meat" in the food chain. well what do you do if you cant get the new people? its simple you have to artificially create them. What we need is 20-30 bots playing the game at all time. These relatively low intelligent bots programmed to fight in different styles from mining, gunning, and running suicide missions into the nearest ship. This basic building block in the food chain gives REAL newbies some thing to shoot at and to be able to kill. As it is right now, a newbie joins and gets 1 kill and 50 losses fighting pro players.



The ocean would die if the bottom of the food chain died, and the same thing has been happening to subspace for years. the bottom of the food chain has been broken for a long time.



2. The client, websites, and game help files are out of date and old. For example we could create some tube videos for newbies showing them some basic parts of the game. i know its easy for me to download and install however compared to the new games that are out subspace takes a lot of work for a new person to figure out whats going on.



3. Real Meat

After you build this basic food chain, simplify the install and setup, we all need to do a huge push to advertise to get REAL people into the game. lets say for example in the month of June we set a goal to put a banner on every website we can, hand out 1,000 flyers, hold LAN parties at peoples houses. we need a huge push as a community to introduce new people to the game.



Ok those are my 3 ideas. Let the ripping and complaining and criticizing begin. o and by the way when you get ready to post how building a bot is impossible. its not. i have one built. my bot recognizes its energy level, its current location on the map, direction he is facing, what toys he has. he can use any toy he has and can fire weapons. he can also tell what direction an enemy ship is.

[/quote]



I actually think some of those are good ideas.



1. The Bot idea



I suggested somewhere (either in forum or in pub spec) that a single bot in the main zone when NOONE or ONE person was playing would be good. Too often when ive come into Chaos, everyones in spec and probably away, so the person that came in to have a look has no option to play for a bit to kill some time, so then just leaves. Ppl dont seem to unspec unless theres 1-2 minimum out there in the 'field' <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' /> ..... so provide a bot for that time, and then have it go to spec once there are at least 2 ppl playing. Kills ON the bot shouldnt count for stats though ..... but perhaps it would be fun to have kills BY the bot count <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pardon:' /> <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />



However, a tutorial arena populated by bots for new ppl to practice on sounds great. You can have bots of varying difficulty (based on their bty level and which upgrades they have) for new people to get some real practice on. The bots can have FIXED bty while the new ppl are able to powerup.

I know if its accessible by vets, it may affect the experience. So perhaps one way to be able to do this (if its possible) is for everytime a new person enters Chaos (bot can check their ?USAGE) they automatically get sent to a private unlisted arena which is created for them (ex: ?go [username]). Once the person has killed off all the bots in the arena, or if the bots are able to respawn then maybe achieves a certain RATIO (so we know theyre actually able to kill the bots at least .... the downside being they may only be killing the easier bots repeatedly), then they can have the option to go to the public arena right away, or on their next entry.

Infact, this could even work as an OFFLINE TUTORIAL ZONE for everyone ..... including ppl who have played with crazy non-VIE settings and need a refresher <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drinks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



If it wasnt for the fact that ppl come into the Chaos zone JUST to go on to League, WZ, 4v4 Practice, etc. i think it might be kind of interesting to make EVERYONE have to go through something like an alpha ARENA at the beginning of each reset <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Perhaps with other players being invulnerable, so only bots can be killed. Once a certain ratio, or stat is achieved they can then go on to the main zones <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />





2. Client, website, game help



YouTube sounds like a good idea if anyone actually wants to do it <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Perhaps the tutorial will also help ppl to figure out the game too.





3. Advertising



This really is essential. On the forum, or the SS website, have available banners (different styles and sizes) and other links that ppl can easily copy and paste on other websites. Make it EASIER to advertise. Im sure quite a few ppl know how to make banner links etc .... but not EVERYONE. Make it easier for those people.

Perhaps also even have a button on the launch screen somewhere that will allow ppl to "INVITE FRIENDS" which could open an email with the banner link already there for them to send on to friends. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Cheese]

anyone interested in AI bots should stop by sscv distension



ive been very close to releasing my AI bot core for any zone running ASSS, and it should revolutionize the area.

its also a platform for other people to make their own AI bot logic/actions as well

however, the system in which the bots take damage is not yet complete, and progress has stalled out because ive been horrendously busy irl for about half a year so far





PS:

i plan to eventually make a turret defense/tower defense game/arena/zone eventually

[Gadianton]

Cheese im very interested. do you have a link where i can learn more. website? forum?

[Caerbannog]

Gadianton said: "This basic building block in the food chain gives REAL newbies some thing to shoot at and to be able to kill. As it is right now, a newbie joins and gets 1 kill and 50 losses fighting pro players."



Or a newbie joins, can't find you on the map, and when he eventually does you minerepel him with your turret. He won't even know what happened. But keep pretending you're doing good deeds to the population.

--

There's a built in problem with a single newbie scenario though. Pretty much no one in the zone can play with them without killing them 50:1 if they want to.

[Gadianton]

How is a hunter gunning a newbie down 50-1 any different then me mine reping them. o ya i remember. A hunter will yell and scream in pub chat that the newbie is a %$@$# looser and should go kill them self. Some times i actually let a newbie gun an me and he gets a rush of getting a few kills. I don't see hunters being some kind generous group helping out newbies so get off your high horse.



[quote name='Caerbannog' timestamp='1302103573' post='274462']

There's a built in problem with a single newbie scenario though. Pretty much no one in the zone can play with them without killing them 50:1 if they want to.

[/quote]

That's why i suggested building 20-30 dumb bots for the newbies to have something to shoot at. If i let the newbie kill me Hallu will accuse me of gifting and BAN me and remove the 2,000 bounty kill from the newbies record. Then the newbie would be REALLY confused.

[Caerbannog]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302111305' post='274467']

How is a hunter gunning a newbie down 50-1 any different then me mine reping them. o ya i remember. A hunter will yell and scream in pub chat that the newbie is a %$@$# looser and should go kill them self. Some times i actually let a newbie gun an me and he gets a rush of getting a few kills. I don't see hunters being some kind generous group helping out newbies so get off your high horse.



[quote name='Caerbannog' timestamp='1302103573' post='274462']

There's a built in problem with a single newbie scenario though. Pretty much no one in the zone can play with them without killing them 50:1 if they want to.

[/quote]

That's why i suggested building 20-30 dumb bots for the newbies to have something to shoot at. If i let the newbie kill me Hallu will accuse me of gifting and BAN me and remove the 2,000 bounty kill from the newbies record. Then the newbie would be REALLY confused.

[/quote]



First, you seem to use "hunter" as a synonym for "pro players". Assuming you're not talking about league players as a reference to "Pro League", still a weird analogy.

Second, it doesn't matter who does the killing. I did not say that it does. Your original point was no less valid after I pointed out that you minerepel newbies if you can. Although I will go on and state that a minerepel is the WORST way you can kill a newbie. It makes zero sense to them, they're not low, they die. I've seen this happen in real life a few times.



I've never seen you let a newbie "gun you". Not even for two seconds. Most people in the zone won't give them a fighting chance. Even if I ever do it, I feel stupid doing it. And I feel like the newbie feels stupid too with someone obviously toying with him.



And no. You did not suggest dumb bots so that newbies could kill them. You suggested bots so that you could kill the bots, and kill the newbies trying to kill the bots.

You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Like we previously discussed; the original Subspace comes with "Tutorial", where you get to kill drones. Go download it.



Not that bots would be all bad, if only used in a ?go tutorial arena for target practice etc.



EDIT: Newbies do not even know what a record is. They also won't contend for winning a category. They won't be confused.

[hallucination]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302111305' post='274467']

If i let the newbie kill me Hallu will accuse me of gifting and BAN me and remove the 2,000 bounty kill from the newbies record.

[/quote]



Another quiz for you all while waiting for Priit to finish fixing up the biller. What is factually inaccurate in the above statement? Extra credit bonus question: what part of this statement has a greater than 99% chance of being factually inaccurate and why? Double bonus points for correcting all grammatical and spelling errors in the above sentence .



--hallu

[Ninja Cat]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1302111305' post='274467']If i let the newbie kill me Hallu will accuse me of gifting and BAN me and remove the 2,000 bounty kill from the newbies record. Then the newbie would be REALLY confused.

[/quote]



Did I win?



- Ninja Cat

[PsyOps]

[url="http://forums.ssgn.net/topic/25695-biller-is-down/page__view__findpost__p__274475"]![/url]