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09-10-2012, 01:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2012, 01:45 PM by ZiGNoTZaG.)
[quote name='Death Incarnate' timestamp='1347252343' post='284087']
It can only be one or the other... havn't you all ever played this before.... shit.....
[/quote]
Not sure what you mean. But take the flags as we have them now. Change the two settings that give an upgrade if you are carrying a flag. Now when you pick up a flag your weapons get upgraded and perhaps other various things occur. Add a PB(s). Now, regardless of whether or not you are flagged, you can pickup the ball. Picking up the ball alone (You are not carrying flags) does not you give you an upgrade unless you have the option in the config set to use the flagger upgrades/downgrades. If the flags are not giving upgrades or downgrades, picking up the ball will have no effect other then those inherent to the soccer settings.
So you can run both games, both can give upgrades/downgrades, but you cannot have just the ball give upgrades, the flag settings control that, and the soccer settings "borrow" from that. Not an either/or scenario.
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09-10-2012, 02:20 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2012, 02:24 PM by Ninespike.)
Here we fucking go again with the FEW making zone changes for the MANY... if you want to have a zone you can change into whatever you want every fucking week then go make a fucking zone for that. Stop changing chaos for a few fucking people because they are bored. Why the fuck this is even a consideration is beyond me.
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Who is doing what? This is just talk Nine <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' /> I cant speak for him, but I think its quite safe to say Hallu isn't going to do anything radical for any extended period of time. Instead of such a brief display of dismay at the mere mention of a change in gameplay perhaps you would offer up your opinion on why or why not such changes would be a good or bad thing.
The game in question here (to the best of my knowledge) is one that has existed in chaos before. One or two no timer flags that upgrade a ship. Nothing more.
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09-10-2012, 03:32 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2012, 03:52 PM by Ninespike.)
When it comes to that it is simply a matter of opinion and my opinion is no better than anyone elses. I happen to like the 8 flag game and i was the one primarily who pushed and pushed for the flag game stats we have now in the hallucitron. (before that i was the one pushing and pushing for squad stat recognition which also came about). If i was going to push anything now it would be to solve the flag points counting error problem in the hallucitron. it does not shoq individual or squad flag totals just winners. i just like the 8 flag game which has been a part of choas for a very very long time. i was pissed when it was taken out and bitched and bitched until it was put back in. expect more of the same if it happens again. then this fiasco of having a powerball goal/game in chaos the other weekend. I CALL BULLSHIT ON THAT. they have a powerball zone. so once again GET YOUR OWN FUCKING ZONE FOR THAT SHIT.. dont use ours.
the only thing you guys want is the huge advantage that comes with purple bullets and blue bombs. try playing better instead.
oh and one more thing that in my opinion that needs to be fixed ASAP.. if you win a flag game with 0 points THERE SHOULD BE NO BTY REWARD.
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Well since that was my map and therefore my goal, Ill address that. First you should understand that It was I who approached Hallu with the idea of trying out a different map in pub, not Hallu seeking a new map. You can sleep at night knowing that Hallu does not care for the goal either, and expressed as much right from the get go. I continued with my map for a few months and presented the map as finished to Hallu who agreed to give it a trial run. My goal was not to destroy your idea of what you think chaos should be, it was to try and improve the zone through action, not idle complaining or stagnating inaction. I would like nothing more then to see player counts rise, and I made a serious attempt at providing some positive development to such an end. So if you think I was "using" "your" zone for some form of self glorification you would be dead wrong.
I just made some things for a game I like and want others to like as well.
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09-10-2012, 04:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2012, 04:36 PM by Sue E. Side.)
What do you think of the current flag game's settings, Nine?
The reason I dislike it is because it seems to reward cowardice in a zone that seems to have bred an entire culture of it. Flaggers tend to wait for carriers on other teams to drop their flags rather than fighting to collect the remaining flags, which is extremely easy to do with the zone settings and bot commands we have in place. Everytime I decide to play against others the flag game literally becomes a game of 'keep away', usually with Axe picking up one of the 8 flags and running off to isolated corners of the map, avoiding conflict so he doesn't lose it. It went on this way for hours one night.
"It's part of the game, deal with it" is nice and all, but why are we promoting cowardly play in a zone that already has it in spades and suffers with low population? When someone logs in and sees the few players running around with zero intent on fighting do you think he'll be inclined to stick around?
I think removing or significantly extending the flag timers would make the flag game a lot more involving because it forces players together rather than apart.
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09-11-2012, 03:11 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-11-2012, 04:06 PM by Ninespike.)
Dont get your panties all in a bunch zig.. i thought you did a great job on the map.. it was twice as big as we need for current pop but i am all about new maps anyway just for a change. its the core rules that i hold inviolate and adding a goal-oriented feature that interrupts the flow of play is a no no in my book. yes i am aware the flag game is also goal-oriented but you can choose to play or not and it doesnt affect the flow of play.. what does affect that flow is when 85% of the players in the zone are doing nothing but hovering around a goal in the middle. i really appreciate the effort you put into that map and it was awesome. not sure where the whole "self-glorification" thing came in above but i dont think that at all. the comments i made above were not directed at you but at the concept.
in response to sue i think the flag game is fun and sometimes extremely frustrating. that is to be accepted as part of the game. what must change is the bounty reward for 0 point flag wins. its unacceptable that someone can run their bounty into the thousands by simply collecting flags while the zone is empty. there is no challenge there and that is FUCKING LAME.
after talking with sue about it i think it would be interesting to run flag games without flag timers. if you want to win youll have to kill those people with flags regardless of time. flags will still have to pop up here and there when people leave or spike but eliminating the timer could really make the flag game more difficult and challenging.
in addition, there should be a way to drop flags at the players discretion. if you dont want to flag but accidentally end up with one or several you should be able to hit a key and drop them back into the flag spawn. that being said, i want to point out that these sort of adjustments to the flag game would not interrupt the flow of play in the zone and THAT is why i play in this zone. FLOW OF PLAY.
---
although this would only encourage idiots to hold flags and avoid fighting for even longer....
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[quote name='Ninespike' timestamp='1347286832' post='284089']
...Here we fucking go again... want every fucking week then go make a fucking zone for that... a few fucking people.... Why the fuck....I CALL BULLSHIT ON THAT....GET YOUR OWN FUCKING ZONE FOR THAT SHIT....
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Dont get your panties all in a bunch zig..
[/quote]
Um, Sure. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rofl:' />
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[quote name='Ninespike' timestamp='1347376301' post='284099']
although this would only encourage idiots to hold flags and avoid fighting for even longer....
[/quote]
Yeah, that's the flipside of the coin, but there's nothing wrong with that. If people want to win the flag game they'll need to chase down the carriers same way a hunter would chase down a turret or other high bounty. Worst case scenario, the lamer(s) trying to keep flags away expose weakenesses in the game/map's design that should be addressed. Best case scenario, the flag game draws in more players and the cowards that loved to play 'keep away' become more involved/aggressive.
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As of right now, the score sits at
7 wants the two flags with the super bullets and mega bombs
5 are either unsure, or dont want it (8 flags)
I myself voted FOR the level up flags... when I first came to Chaos from Alpha all those years ago, the level up flags (2 flags) was the game being played, and I loved it, really made it 'Chaos' ya know lol... some newb would get one and scare the vets lol so funny... especially when youd look at the alpha flags that did nothing at all except make you a target.
[url="http://youtu.be/BlwR6Fw2I08"]http://youtu.be/BlwR6Fw2I08[/url]
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Ok well for what its worth I have to make it clear it is normally me who yells and screams and twists his panties about getting the powerup flag game on. I'm just a random pleb and my vote shouldn't count anymore than anyone else's. But here's my reason(s) WHY.
My MAIN BY FAR problem with flag games AT ALL is that it colours the radar dot of the flag holder, red, regardless of bounty. MY most common modus op in Chaos is to insanely chase high bounty (meant to read: hard to kill ship) and try to kill it ... or even help get it killed by some1 else. For this, its handy to use target and see which dot is the bty dot. When it (or anyone else) has flags, this is of course made more difficult. Best case scenario would be for two different shades of red so you could see if a flag-carrier was a bty as well, but that's not possible.
My main problem with the jackpot flag game is that it can encourage people to sneak around avoiding contests and just looking for flags. I think that's one of the things Sue says, too. I'm not aghast at it, but waiting in safe/spec/nether reaches for other people to kill each other (and raise the jackpot), and then go snowdropping for flags is kindah akin to linebombing from a distance. I think that if you have 7 flags you shouldn't be able to pick up a flag, you should have to kill for it. But then opponents will just refuse to touch the flag .. etc etc ...
I also agree with Nine about the bty points for 0 flag points. Lol, that's just a bit crazy. I am glad that points are SPLIT over flag winners on the freq, now. That's one good thing. People were inviting pals to their freq just to share the points, including ramping up their squad points, crazy attitude.
Finally, why do I like powerup flag game over jackpot flag game? Because years ago when I dropped into Chaos for a die or twenty, thats what I saw. My experience is that the powerup flag game was the more usual. Maybe I just turned up at coincidental times, every time ...
I'm for the odd reset with one flag game, the off reset with the other. It seems Chaos has salvaged both from different old zones (speed and jackpot?) and its good they survive, so give them both a go. (I reckon)
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yeah well.. SEVEN whole fucking people demanded it so guess what..?? now hallu has changed the flag game.. WTF?? i cant even begin to describe my disillusionment at this continuous fucking bullshit... Way to fucking go.. ive found 7 people who think the zone should be shut down permanently... so lets do that.. fucking assholes.
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[quote name='Ninespike' timestamp='1347716194' post='284129']
yeah well.. SEVEN whole fucking people demanded it so guess what..?? now hallu has changed the flag game.. WTF?? i cant even begin to describe my disillusionment at this continuous fucking bullshit... Way to fucking go.. ive found 7 people who think the zone should be shut down permanently... so lets do that.. fucking assholes.
[/quote]
Apparently you haven't figured out yet that Hallu doesn't care what the players want. He knows better than you.
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[quote name='Ethylene!' timestamp='1347724251' post='284133']
Apparently you haven't figured out yet that Hallu doesn't care what the players want. He knows better than you.
[/quote]
At the end of the day, Hallu's the one running the show and making the final decision on all the settings/features, so if you want something implemented you're going to have to convince him it's in the zone's best interest. Better to hammer home any arguments for/against changes than insults and accusations of corruption/favoritism.
The message boards for this zone have always been seen as a hangout for a small percentage of the player base/vocal minority, even when it still had 100+ simultaneous players, but to that effect I say convince other players to come throw their two cents in. Silence may as well be acceptance.
Back on topic: I didn't mind the power up flag over the weekend and think the longer flag timers currently in place are at least a step in the right direction.
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[quote name='Ninespike' timestamp='1347291153' post='284091']
When it comes to that it is simply a matter of opinion and my opinion is no better than anyone elses. I happen to like the 8 flag game and i was the one primarily who pushed and pushed for the flag game stats we have now in the hallucitron. (before that i was the one pushing and pushing for squad stat recognition which also came about). If i was going to push anything now it would be to solve the flag points counting error problem in the hallucitron. it does not shoq individual or squad flag totals just winners. i just like the 8 flag game which has been a part of choas for a very very long time. i was pissed when it was taken out and bitched and bitched until it was put back in. expect more of the same if it happens again. then this fiasco of having a powerball goal/game in chaos the other weekend. I CALL BULLSHIT ON THAT. they have a powerball zone. so once again GET YOUR OWN FUCKING ZONE FOR THAT SHIT.. dont use ours.
the only thing you guys want is the huge advantage that comes with purple bullets and blue bombs. try playing better instead.
oh and one more thing that in my opinion that needs to be fixed ASAP.. if you win a flag game with 0 points THERE SHOULD BE NO BTY REWARD.
[/quote]
Wait, didn't you just say you tired of the few making the decisions for the many? And here you are saying it was you that got changes put in place? Seems to fly in the face of the "few making the decisions for the many".
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[quote name='Sue E. Side' timestamp='1347294910' post='284093']
What do you think of the current flag game's settings, Nine?
The reason I dislike it is because it seems to reward cowardice in a zone that seems to have bred an entire culture of it. Flaggers tend to wait for carriers on other teams to drop their flags rather than fighting to collect the remaining flags, which is extremely easy to do with the zone settings and bot commands we have in place. Everytime I decide to play against others the flag game literally becomes a game of 'keep away', usually with Axe picking up one of the 8 flags and running off to isolated corners of the map, avoiding conflict so he doesn't lose it. It went on this way for hours one night.
"It's part of the game, deal with it" is nice and all, but why are we promoting cowardly play in a zone that already has it in spades and suffers with low population? When someone logs in and sees the few players running around with zero intent on fighting do you think he'll be inclined to stick around?
I think removing or significantly extending the flag timers would make the flag game a lot more involving because it forces players together rather than apart.
[/quote]
Chaos has turned in to a type of boxing match where the two fighters are there to not lose rather than to win. Anyone that's a fight fan with understand this, if you don't understand this it's because you're part of the problem.
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[quote name='SuG' timestamp='1347932482' post='284157']Chaos has turned in to a type of boxing match where the two fighters are there to not lose rather than to win. Anyone that's a fight fan with understand this, if you don't understand this it's because you're part of the problem.
[/quote]
Not all of us fit that mold.
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[url="http://youtu.be/iS7EayXFSTk"]http://youtu.be/iS7EayXFSTk[/url]
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[quote name='SuG']
Chaos has turned in to a type of boxing match where the two fighters are there to not lose rather than to win. Anyone that's a fight fan with understand this, if you don't understand this it's because you're part of the problem.
[/quote]
got that right.
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