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02-23-2012, 02:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-04-2012, 03:03 AM by hallucination.)
Revisiting the safe zone time after the 9 hour experiment. Please vote, and state your thoughts below.
I've not put in poll choices for "no safe zones" because Chaos has always had safe zones and lame safe zone play (like J12), and that's not going away. Also when safe zone time was 5 minutes, rather than forcing people back on the field to play as those advocating that short a time had hoped, the targets simply went to spec or left, yielding a lower population. So I've not included that choice either because we've tried it and it didn't work well for anyone.
--15 mins The Retail Release SVS (RR-SVS) setting. My opinion: Something of a balance between "taking a break" and "still playing the game" in that hunters could wait out the 15 minutes.
--45 mins Allows enough time to grab a quick meal. Requested by many people, and when it was put in the feedback was very positive. Did it increase zone population? Not much, but it did not decrease it.
--9 hours Requested with the speculation that it would lead to higher btys which would lead to higher population. Extraordinarily high btys can bring people into the zone to hunt, but they can also skew the Ave and Rating competition through a small number of kills; so it's not all positive. Enough time to go to work or sleep and come back.
To me, there is little difference between 45 mins and 9 hours in terms of game play. Both are ridiculously long periods of time for a real time game; the action comes to a halt longer than any player is willing to actively wait in either case. Did it increase population? Not significantly. Decrease? No. Feedback has been quite positive, with several people changing their minds over the course of the reset from "don't like" to "like."
Downsides of 9 hr safe time (or any long safe time):
First, any exploit possible with a 9 hr safe time is also possible with a 45 min one (or 15 mins for that matter), it's just the effort involved in executing it.
--Streak exploits. Sit in safe with the streak and wait for the zone to get very quiet, then bring in a friend and kill them over and over with no one else around. This is not new, really, and would be dealt with the same ways that are used to keep the integrity of Streaks and of the Reset Winners competition (disqualification, etc.).
--Antiwarp in safe for hours. People speculated at the beginning that this would happen. I thought only occasionally would someone accidentally leave aw on. No one could possibly be a big enough troll to intentionally do this for more than a short period of time (meaning that 3 months from now, no one would be sitting in safe every day to annoy people). Right? Well Mr. Explosion decided to try and be that very troll himself, in order prove that being a troll was possible and would be bad. BAD! Or something. Only a couple of players were upset by his action. The vast majority of people had no problem with him making it clear that he's a troll. There are ways to deal with this (and all trolls), so I don't consider this an issue if we keep long safe times.
--Holding the streak. We saw Gadianton hold the streak an entire day sitting in safe. This is the only real downside I see to long safe times -- not so much that the a personal Streak can be held that long (Gad did nothing wrong here), but that it prevents the Streak from being part of the normal, active conversation during play. If someone is sitting in safe, not playing, there are no announcements of who has the Streak, which is a goal for some of the players. The Streak was conceived as a continuous playing effort, during 15 min safe times, so short breaks were possible. There are solutions for this including going to safe for any length of time ending a streak; or a streak ending after sitting in safe for X amt of time. I'm not fond of these solutions. This still needs consideration.
As always in Chaos, with the various goals that different players have, there will be a variety of opinions ;) Thoughts?
--hallu
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I've enjoyed the 9hour safe and have found people have enjoyed it for the most part. If you don't like someone going to safe of course you won't like a 9hour safezone. I find its a good counter to someone attacking you no stop with new ships that don't need to be be greened. Almost like a time out. As far as streak i'd like to see a streak announcement come up more often. You could even add a currently resting in safe option or even a coord shout out. I don't think being in safe should end a streak as your still playing perhaps even building a larger one. Best of luck and remember any game is here to have fun don't get to bogged down with rules.
...Axe
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02-23-2012, 06:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2012, 06:53 PM by hallucination.)
i voted 9 hours, its good for population.
the only problem is with these ***** who sit there all friggin day running anti.
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I voted for 15 minutes because there are already two options for people wanting to leave the game for nine hours and coming back; esc+q and spectator mode. The higher bounty argument is a bit silly, in my opinion, as I'm a believer that population rises and falls based on who decides to play the zone at any given time. I do not join the zone, sit in spec looking for high bty and leave if there's no one for me to chase. I play because I want to play and it's as simple as that. This is not Find Huge Bounty & Chase Zone. There are many different styles of play and even while in the zone, people change what they're doing regularly. I'll lame in the castle or J12 for ten minutes, get sick of it, and then chase. Then I'll get sick of finding the turret and team for a little while holding a section of the map. Then I'll go solo for a while, shooting whoever, then I'll shift to good ol' lame standby mine repping, go do something else, blah blah blah. None of this is affected by safe zone times.
I will say that I don't like the fact that I can't get a streak because of someone sitting in safe for nine hours. I know I'm not the greatest player so it's a lot of fun for me to get a streak every now and then. If the chaos greats hog it all the time, there's no fun left for the not-so-great players like me. I also don't like the AW thing but as you said, it's not the end of the world. Besides, even the most obnoxious trolls get sick of being a troll after a while.
I guess in the end my advice is to pick a time and stick with it. I'm not going to cry about a nine hour safe time. I just like standards.
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02-24-2012, 08:29 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2012, 11:09 AM by Capt ARGH!.)
[quote name='AnselAdams' timestamp='1330052360' post='281273']
I voted for 15 minutes because there are already two options for people wanting to leave the game for nine hours and coming back; esc+q and spectator mode. The higher bounty argument is a bit silly, in my opinion, as I'm a believer that population rises and falls based on who decides to play the zone at any given time. I do not join the zone, sit in spec looking for high bty and leave if there's no one for me to chase. I play because I want to play and it's as simple as that. This is not Find Huge Bounty & Chase Zone. There are many different styles of play and even while in the zone, people change what they're doing regularly. I'll lame in the castle or J12 for ten minutes, get sick of it, and then chase. Then I'll get sick of finding the turret and team for a little while holding a section of the map. Then I'll go solo for a while, shooting whoever, then I'll shift to good ol' lame standby mine repping, go do something else, blah blah blah. None of this is affected by safe zone times.
I will say that I don't like the fact that I can't get a streak because of someone sitting in safe for nine hours. I know I'm not the greatest player so it's a lot of fun for me to get a streak every now and then. If the chaos greats hog it all the time, there's no fun left for the not-so-great players like me. I also don't like the AW thing but as you said, it's not the end of the world. Besides, even the most obnoxious trolls get sick of being a troll after a while.
I guess in the end my advice is to pick a time and stick with it. I'm not going to cry about a nine hour safe time. I just like standards.
[/quote]
9 hours may be excessive in some peoples view, 15 mins is a little short for me personally. often i've parked and had to be AFK and come back like 2 mins late.
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I voted 9 hours cuz it rocked the arena! Made it more fun! And was a cool change. I hope others do to.
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02-24-2012, 11:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2012, 11:52 PM by Plutorus.)
Voting for 9 hour limit - IMO, the incentive here to stay ingame outweighs the negatives in this case.
And if it were also put to vote, I'd go with streaks ending when entering a safe or a minute or two afterward.
Thanks for the poll!
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voted 45 minutes.
Is just enough to do some eating.
This would indeed change if streaks would end after a certain period of time.
I dont have any objection to a 9 hour safe time if that could be changed.
I believe the word "Streak" says it all.. there shouldnt be a 5 hour or longer gap between kills.
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I voted for 90 minutes, however 9 hours is fine as well for me. The reason being that regularly I have to pick my daughter at the university and it takes more than 45 minutes and i hate losing my, normally, high bounty.
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The point of any game is to play. Safe zones were set up so that people could take a piss, get a drink, answer the phone.. etc. Spec is for people who want to be in the zone without playing. In my opinion 9 hour safe times are the death knoll of this game. I'm not even going to bother addressing all the aspects that are affected by extending the safe time to this ridiculous level. Again, THE POINT OF ANY GAME IS TO PLAY.
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I'm in two minds, though generally against long safe times.
Maybe safe time allowance can be aggregated based on session time ... for every 10 minutes you play, you get 2 minutes safe time (with a 15 minute free startup flagfall). Eg: someone comes in and has 15 mins safe time up their sleeve, they play 20 minutes and now their safe time allowance is 19 minutes. If you do leave altogether, or spec, it resets.
Maybe that's a harsh ratio, it doesn't have to be exactly that calc. But I think safe time (other than a basic 15 or 20 mins) should be earnt through accumulated session play time.
One of the three most dangerous people in Subspace.
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so safezones should have no timer.
the idea i'd like to address is logging out and keeping bounty or not. (Pending if you close the client or not). The obvious thing is no as it'll be abused but yes for the people it'd help. Most kills are done with f3's, so people using safezones for a free high bounty warp away from danger should eventually lead to their downfall. This is even more the case as population eventually increases.
So, I have yet to try it, but is it possible to log out in a safezone with say 300 bounty and log back in with 300? (Assuming you do not forget to set your ship or change it on the main menu?)?
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02-26-2012, 06:18 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2012, 06:20 PM by hallucination.)
[quote name='A mirror' timestamp='1330277203' post='281315']
So, I have yet to try it, but is it possible to log out in a safezone with say 300 bounty and log back in with 300? (Assuming you do not forget to set your ship or change it on the main menu?)?
[/quote]
Yes, possible but unreliable. Sometimes you retain your bty; other times not.
The exact algorithm that governs this is not publicly known (i.e. Priit and no one else knows it). It appears it is a server side mechanism -- you can close the client, and reopen it, and retain your bty (under some set of circumstances). My speculation has been that the server has a queue of retained btys -- if enough people retain their bty while you're logged out, you get pushed off the end of the queue (and start fresh the next time). Alternatively, it could be stored in the registry but that would open the door for high bty exploits, so is extremely unlikely.
Right now it looks like longer safe zone time will be coming back in the future. The feedback here and in the zone is clearly in support of it. If you have valid reasons against it (or for it), this is the place to make your points and discuss it.
--hallu
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If you didn't vote NINE hours think of this and revote...
9 hours Requested with the speculation that it would lead to higher btys which would lead to higher population. Extraordinarily high btys can bring people into the zone to hunt, but they can also skew the Ave and Rating competition through a small number of kills; so it's not all positive. Enough time to go to work or sleep and come back.
Kinda says it all! Well said.
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02-27-2012, 04:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2012, 08:43 PM by Ninespike.)
Right now it looks like longer safe zone time will be coming back in the future. --Hallu
[size=6]I would like to know how 9 ppl out of the entire population voting for this JUSTIFIES making this change?[/size]
9 votes is dominating? thats a joke right?? i can get 20 ppl who will vote that all safes be removed.. you going to make that change?
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[quote name='Ninespike' timestamp='1330358814' post='281325']
9 votes is dominating? thats a joke right?? i can get 20 ppl who will vote that all safes be removed.. you going to make that change?
[/quote]
Then get 20 people.
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ever sinc ei was a young man i have always wanted a longer safe zone..... together we can make that happen.
--
fuzzy
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The great thing is that people are playing and interested in the times <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' /> to play
I wanted to add in 1 vote for a 12 hour safezone.
This was for Impudent Luck he works a 11hour shift so my 9hour dream was not good enough for his shift! He almost lost a 400 bounty ship!! the horror.
I" love to see Longest Time in the ZONE come up on the news or on the hallutron!
Also how about a Streak list on the hallutron for the reset? its nice to see those things. Also i'd love to see highest bounties and the person who killed them posted on the reset!
Any other ideas more bells whistles and bonus and lifetime ranks plz <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='  ' />
and hows the hallu-bot doing! I haven't seen him since i thought he was a fake!
...Axe
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i say who cares how long you are in safe. just make it that if no body gets a kill in 15 minutes or sits in safe 15 minutes the streak becomes null. so you don't get someone sitting in safe for 3 hours noticing only a few people are playing and are new and killing them then going back to safe and having a 39 kill streak in over 2000 minutes.
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I voted "other". I'm with Nine, no safe zones for weenies to run and hide in.
Hallu, could you address how a 9 hour safe does/will/might impact the dynamic frequency size? For example, 5 people sitting in safe and 5 people actaully playing , does this allow for a 3 or 4 man freq, when otherswise when only 5 people are playing the freq size would be lower? Or do things work in a different way?
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