Flagging in CZ

[GC6]

Specific to this game type :


I think the Green rewards for a win are way to high across the board.


I think that we've removed a very important balance to this game type - in that ships on the

winning team are not reset after a win. This in turn makes the game self sustaining and self perpetuating. 

And allows active flaggers to basically avoid the rest of the zone for the most part while remaining highly powerful.


It's odd that we stop 'green sharing' at 100bty for 'normal CZ game play' but if you're on a freq with a flagger, and never touch a flag, or help kill a flagger, or even see the flagger on your freq while they flag - you get a rediculous reward too.


...meanwhile, everone that doesn't flag is left with the wonky nature of greening and ship cycles on spawn... flags are EASY to find, and what they reward, absolute.  No guessing 'will that be the rep I so desparately need' - it'll be a rep, and 2 more reps, and damn near 3 of everything else...even for low flag point wins.


And the answer here cannot be "then flag" , because then, we're a "flagging zone" - and that undoes all the work to shoehorn flagging into CZ as a "play style" like it's NOT its 'own game type with its own inherant play styles'.

 

I don't even think we use the right type of flag game in here... we should have a game with periodic rewards, that rewards flag points only based on how long you can hold a flag while getting the needed kill stats to keep your timer refreshed and otherwise being part of the active play in the zone.


Right now, our game encourages avoiding 98% of Chaos, and rewards well for doing so..


...there are a lot of things we can do is basically what I'm saying... I don't think the flag game We currently employ serves the goals of Chaos very well to put it bluntly.


I think we can do better.


What about You?


 

[Nude For Satan]

Quoting is difficult here, I've got these out of order.

 

Quote:<div>
It's odd that we stop 'green sharing' at 100bty for 'normal CZ game play' but if you're on a freq with a flagger, and never touch a flag, or help kill a flagger, or even see the flagger on your freq while they flag - you get a rediculous reward too.

</div>

 

Continuing to green share past 100 is an option we all would agree would be silly. So the only alternative in this specific is to reward-share from the flag game to those holding flags only, For eg: you are on a three-player freq - you have 7 flags, two teammates hunt down the last flag and 1 of them kills the flag-holder. You could get 7/8 of the rewards and the other killer 1/8.. Equal share of flag points but porportional share of 'greens' or whatever calc is used to retoy the winner. Maybe with a 1/8 or 2/8 baseline so that that third players still gets something although not much.

 

Quote:<div>
I think that we've removed a very important balance to this game type - in that ships on the

winning team are not reset after a win. This in turn makes the game self sustaining and self perpetuating. 

And allows active flaggers to basically avoid the rest of the zone for the most part while remaining highly powerful

</div>

The biggest issue with the flag game is how it can be won without engagement. I doubt anyone could argue this, although finding the answer is much tricker. Do you try to include a requirement that the last flag can never be just found, but must be killed for, if your freq already has 7? Probably impossible to code anyway. But even if so, then you'll find opposing freqs simply refusing to grab the flag, leaving the 7/8 team stranded while their timer runs out. Exploits everywhere. No answer I can see. What if gaining a flag (without killing) always warps you to a central part of the map (hopefully providing risk of discovery and maybe even the risk of appearing in a dangerous spot). Problem is, a player with high bty running for 2 hours without any interest in flags will use them to warp from hunters. It'd be like 8 more wormholes.

 

Quote:<div>
...meanwhile, everone that doesn't flag is left with the wonky nature of greening and ship cycles on spawn... flags are EASY to find, and what they reward, absolute.  No guessing 'will that be the rep I so desparately need' - it'll be a rep, and 2 more reps, and damn near 3 of everything else...even for low flag point wins.

</div>

Two points you make: flags too easy to find, and rewards too high. Can flags be made harder to find? They are already invisible on radar. Maybe have their languish-time be shortened? It might make things trickier. Just sitting around them waiting for kills, before claiming the ?jackpot would be arrested a little.

Rewards too high : There needs to be some sufficient reward (and don't get me wrong I don't like the flag game at all). But can it be toned down a little? Maybe share the retoy rewards over the players same as sharing the ?jackpot?

 

Quote:<div>
I think the Green rewards for a win are way to high across the board.

</div>

See above.

[GC6]

I wanted to mostly open a discussion, but truth be told, I'm with you NFS, I'd prefer if they were just turned off entirely in CZ, but didn't figure that would be fair to the process, or those who might enjoy them.. I do think it's worthy of discussing further. 


To elaborate on one thing...

Flags easy to find : I didn't really intend this statement in order to hinge on it as a flaw that needed 'fixing' as it were, just to generally state, in any flag mode type, finding the flags is easy

?flags is a default command.. so finding the flags in this manner is intended. I mostly mentioned it to contrast it against the risk/reward for greening normally with the same results given the size of green rewards for winning a flag game.



...more to come

[ZiGNoTZaG]

Firstly, we should get what I like to label the "Hard Drive Effect" out of the way. I call it this because I am a nerd. Lets say you are just an average person who ordered a HDD online. Now lets say you received it, installed it inside your computer machine, and then proceeded to do whatever one does with a HDD installed inside a computer machine. As long as its doing what you expected it to do you are contented, correct? Being that average Joe, that is most likely the end of the story as long as the electrical magic keeps happening for a judicious amount of time. Just mayhap, If you are exceptionally nerdy you just might head on over to place you purchased said device from and express your joyful glee that it is indeed doing what you bought it for. I get computer thing and do computery things! That would be an exception to the rule of just being content

 

Now lets say you get your HDD and any number of horrible, bad, frustrating things happen when you attempt to utilize it. The odds that you are going to head on over to the place you purchased it from with the "Woeful Broadsword of Justice + 1 Bad Review" ready to strike increase in magnitude by very much alot!

 

So, one must factor in the number of HDDs sold vs the number of bad reviews. Then you must look at about 90% of those bad reviews and come to the conclusion that most of those are pretty nontechnical people that shouldn't have a computer.

 

In the end it all sums up to the fact that average folks are only truly motivated to come and express dissatisfaction with something when it goes wrong. If most people are not, or relatively few are motivated enough to come and voice opinion is a static forum such as this, then it must not be a real problem.

 

None of the above states that the flag game is perfect, because it certainly is not. Just that proportion of people who play it, have been provided a place to express any concerns about it, are relatively few. Could there perhaps be a passing mention in pub chat? Sure. But that is not the forum to be taken seriously and some form of cohesive discussion about it take place.

 

So anyway, flag game...

 

Hallu would have to chime in what a bot is capable of, so some of those types of solutions would be more in his realm, but within the confines of what a server.cfg allows there are relatively few options to try and obtain a more lively jackpot flag game.

 

A shall mention a few. But I will also mention that jackpot flag games with carried flags are "running" games. That is just the way it is. You are red, everyone shoots at you. You wont stop flag carriers from running away from situations where going to forward will cost them the flags. Only a fool who isn't playing for keeps and doesn't think anyone else should be would do so.

 

The green reward: This has been observed to keep people playing long enough for others to join in. A contribution based percentage is a good idea. I agree. Take that freq hopper! This would require probably quite a bit of work on hallus part.

 

No Timer: turn off the drop timer. Would most likely increase running. But would negate the running off to drop and neut the flags effect if you really want to win the flag game. You cant just wait for someone else to drop, and they cant just wait for you to drop. Couple with this a standard amount of time after which the flag game will just get reset by the bot. People will abuse and ship change to neut or just to troll the game, and jackpots will be lost.

 

Reduce the Drop Radius: Make dropped flags drop in a clump right where the timer expired. This was done once and it led to some interesting battles over the territory where everyone suspected that the flags would re-appear.

 

Dropped Flags are Owned: The flags you drop are owned by your frequency and cannot be picked up again by anyone of your frequency. This would probably just lead to freq hopping, but could also prove interesting coupled with some of the other controls like reducing the drop radius so that the flags all drop in a clump. It order to re-obtain the flags one would have to A)freq hop. So do that in open space, goodbye to your possibly high bty ship. Or go safe which gives time for other of a different freq to find them and grab them. Too bad for you for letting the timer expire. B) Wait for some other freq to pick them up and take them back, or wait for them to drop owned flags.

 

Flag Kill Multiplier: Flag kills net more points. Incentive to get "more" kills while carrying a flag. Trying to get more kills equals more engagement.

 

Turn Off !FLAGS: or make it cost bonus to use. One reason its no big deal to drop and re-acquire flags is that its no big deal to find them again. But, just turning it off without making some other changes would probably just be a negative given the player counts these days.

 

Again, carried flag games are running games, that wont change. So aside from taking the flag game out one must just look to speed up the time between jackpots and evening up the reward players of different contribution levels get.

 

Lettery Word Quota reached.

[GC6]

All that for : People that are happy don't often complain? I get that..  


However, I see even the active flaggers suggesting the game

rewards too well for what it is, and allows one to basically avoid the rest of the actual zone play.


I think even within the scope of the current game it would be easy to make some changes to bring it more in line with the CZ game play.


Some ideas...


Lower the drop timer:


More like 60 or 80 seconds - it should be low enough that in order to collect ALL the flags, you can't just :


1: get them all within the time limit

or

2: just hide around the outside of the map waiting for timers to expire..


....you're going to need to fight and keep the timer refreshed to hold them all to win the game.


2: Raise the kill bty needed to refresh the timer .. I don't know what it is right now, but with the fact that the flag game craps greens for a win, it should be a lot higher, say, 120 or over - they should have to fight ships roughly on par with their own to keep up the timer.   


3: In line with #2, increase bty share on regular teams to match whatever the Kill bty for reset is.  If it's 120, team greens to 120 or whatever... Flagging should not supplant greening as a way to get a powerful ship, at the very least, it should be on par. If people that in no way shape or form are flagging, on a freq with a flagger gets ridiculous bonus greens for it, then we need to up the green share for teams that do not flag to keep them competitive with the flag rewards...beside, with all the whining and crying I see about low bounty 'recyclers' rocketing across the zone - it would seem that most people rather get some reward for that risk and have good competitive fights... Maybe if those F3 heros have 120+ bty people will be more likely to engage them instead of run away and waiting for them to green, which they never do.  


4: Lower the prize rewards.


Pretty much self explainatory..




We could do any one of these, or some combination of all of them..

I just think there is better balance to be had, and based on the current populations, the flag game hasn't really kept up balance wise, IMHO..  

 

[Nude For Satan]

ZigI struggled to follow your post because the prologue was so weird! The last half makes more sense on second reading but only if I skip the first half!

 

GC6 The biggest issue with changing the flag game is there is often a direct exploit exposed for each one fixed.

 

1. If you make the timer shorter to stop flag-holders engage more, then people will just stop engaging with the flag-holder instead. They'll deliberately stay clear so his/her timer will run out.

2. Not sure how raising the timer reset kill threshhold (I don't know what it is, maybe around about 100). Quite a few effects. Low population times will produce so little opportunity to reset with kills, that flaggers will be even less likely to engage. On the other hand, the ships hassling him/her can be more powerful. (Yes, opposing freqs will actually deliberately not green enough to become a resetter. They'll suicide until they hit 100(?) and then shipchange so as not to become a potential reset risk. I'd like not to believe I've seen this, but I have.)

3. & 4. Complex stuff, but with some real potential. Depends on some good thinking through, and of course what the bots can even do.

[Gruntster]

I really don't have a firm grasp on how the fuck the flagging game works so I largely fly around and try to kill shit.

[Axe Demento]

Heheh Grunt i was about to launch into my thoughts about the flag game but you sir have captured a key element

 

So as I've played a lot of SS in chaos i have a pretty good feel for how this game is.

 

I would call the current game CHAOS Flagging. As its style is in this zone.

 

What i would do for the flag game is make the points to 10% instead of 100% this would allow you to see your points effect your overall total instead of eclipsing it.

 

I like the SS shield. I always have when i first starting playing this zone again i was having the most kills but not getting the shield.  Then i realized that as the jackpot is always going to give you the total number of kill points from the zone instead of just yours.  It will give you the most points.

 

If you dropped it  to 10% it would give you a boost but the guy who was killing even more guys would be able to stay in front.  I know hallu keeps his flag points separate but if you built the flag points into part of your usually points it would give the zone a better flow.

 

If you do like keeping them separate you would of course already be able to do that by keeping it the same as it is.  So you would have flag points winner and points winner. But you would also be able to have an overall winner.

 

As far as the green boost.  I like the bounties going up.  I enjoy the rapid green to full but make no mistake it makes flagging well worth doing both for bounty and for prizes.  If you gave the winners a fresh ship and a bounty booster but only gave them prizes at the same level a recycled ship would get.  I think that would balance it out.

 

Ie i win flags with my 1200 points ship.  I get to keep my 1200 point ship but instead of getting 1200prizes added back to my ship i get 75 or what ever the starting bounty is.

This way you might even lose stuff when you win flags.  So you get points but you might get new stuff if you have used everything up or you might lose stuff if you have maxed out your ship.

 

 

To recap. CHAOS FLAGS

1. Drop the Jackpot from 100% of kills to 10%

2. Do the reprize only as much as the current starting bounty.

 

I think that would make it fit in with the classic style much better.

The reason i wouldn't get rid of it is it seems pretty much ingrained in this zone now.  

 

 

As a side note when did this style of flag game come into the zone?

 

...AXE

 

SSDZ KAOS Axe Demento SVS

[GC6]

We could orate for days on this subject, but it seems we're all just going 'round and round' on theoreticals...


Lets see if we can whittle all this down into some easy to read and reflect upon points that have come up thus far.


1: default flag carry time may be too high for the size of the map and the aggregate population of CZ at this time.

2: We don't know what the minimum bty needed via kill to reset the flag timers are - but it seems low whatever it is.

3: Prize rewards for flag games - particularly those with little to no flag points accumulated - or low pop times are too high - this gets exponetially worse as population sees upticks as the more people in the zone, the higher the reward scales.  

4: The averge non-flagger is at a effort/reward disadvantage compared to flaggers given equal time in the zone.

5: We give non-flaggers on freqs with flaggers massive green prizes they have not earned at all via participation in flagging, but cap team greening at 100 - because giving away too many free greens to people is "ridiculous".


If I were to make any suggestion based on any of the input this far, this is approximately what I'd do.


1: Flag timer set to 120 seconds, or 2 minutes (Down from 3 right now)


It's too high right now for the size of the map, and the average zone populations - one can easily win a flag game within the base 180 second timer - the timer should be just enough to get from flag to flag, and or accomodate a fight either with another flagger or qulifying BTY for reset... Yes, you get less time to do it, so, you better be good at finding and engaging your targets and finishing the kill... not just avoiding everyone else till their timers expire.   (For what it's worth ; if we're going to say it's 'justified' that flaggers can run to make timers expire to win a flag games via non-engagement, then it's equally as valid for normal players to avoid flaggers so they can't reset their timers. -can't have it both ways, sorry.


2: Whatever the flag timer is set at, set the minimum bty to kill to reset the flag timer to exactly the same number..


120 second flag timer, have to kill a 120 bty ship to reset it. 100 seconds, 100 bty, 180 seconds, 180bty... 


This should theoretically do two things ;

1: Level the playing field a bit between flag winners and the average joes they encounter in so far as ship strength.


2: Going after other flag carriers , instead of non-engagement forcing them to drop, becomes necessary, as timer resets with

a flag kill regardless of the carriers bounty.  Ie, it should turn the flaggers inward on eachother and create more play between

active flaggers than there is now, buy making the odds of refresh for a flag kill better than non-engagement strategies or trying to find

the needed minimum bty to reset it alone.


Coupling these two things together I think forces them to actually participate in the majority of zone play while still maintaining their flag game as close to what it is as possible, and without getting too mad with the Bots and the like... these two things are 'vanilla' settings.


Now, while I think the two settings above by themsleves could be changed and acheive the desired effects - I'd also reduce the prize rewards for a flag win, as well as increase the team green share to match whatever the Kill bty to reset the timer is.


If you need a 120 bty to reset the flag timer, then team greens should go to 120 too...or what ever that number becomes, provided it doesn't go lower that 100.. consider it likea good faith offering to flaggers... If we say you need 120 bty to rset your timer, we should take care to put that sort of target in their reticals, or making it more common.


But again, these are ancillary for me, and more or less 'fine tuning' adjustments we can also look at down the line as or if things progress...


At the very very least, I think if we touched nothing else at all, reducing the carry timer to 120 would help, and looking at reducing either prize rewards, or increasing team greens to equalize the rewards would be easy to manage, and not blow everything else up too much. 


I will add that Axe makes some good points too... it would seem that flagging has a very very slight 'higher regard' for preservation when it comes to CZ right now... It's a touch unbalanced compared to typical CZ zone play - and in some cases, flaggers/flagging seems to get different 'protections' as it were than preserving CZ zone play does..

Ie: are we trying to hard to keep flaggin alive and missing how it's current implementation does not actually forward the goals and ideals of general Chaos play?


I get that without flags in CZ, SVS flagging is done, dead as a door nail, stick a fork in it... if we don't use it, it dies - but it can't be parasitic in it's implementation and anything that starts making CZ more "you MUST flag to keep up with flaggers - because they are the most powerful"  - makes CZ a Flagging zone, not a 'Chaos'  zone.


But as I said from the onset, the way we've shoehorned flagging in here - this was bound to happen eventually.

 

~Edits for spelling and calrification of idears.



 

[Axe Demento]

I'll revisit it quickly just to be exact on what i'm saying

The flag game as is works fine one doesn't have to play if you don't want.

 

It only really matters if you care about overall points and restocking your ship.

 

The zone is quite often and the game sits with the regular just kill or be killed style well.

 

Reduce the Points 1/10th jackpot.

Reduce the Toy Reprize to that of a recycled ship.

 

Everything else keep the same as the flag game has become a part of this zone.

 

The current bounty reset is 90 which isn't bad.  If i changed this i'd match the streak kill number to make the most sense.

 

 

...Axe

 

If i did change the chaos flag game to fit this zone.  The only change i would make would be 1 powerflag.  +1/+1 on.  Then you have something to chase and everyone is fighting.

[GC6]

Another test today:


Entered CZ - 75 start BTY - took a warbird.

3 non bots in spec, and I was the only one flying around.

Jackpot was 869 points.

Took me roughly 1 minute to gather all the flags and I inadvertantly picked up 2 greens along the way,

I got 63 greens for that effort - making my total bounty after the win 140


(starting prizes in brackets)


For those 63 green prizes I got :


2 Bursts  (0)

3 Reps (2)

2 decoys  (0)

(no brix) (0)

3 thors (1)

1 rocket (0)

3 ports (3)


I then respawed  the same ship (Warbird) And greened it to 140.

It took me approximately 3 minutes and 4 seconds.

I got one multiprize (11 greens) during this time.


I ended up with:


0 Bursts (0)

3 reps (1)

1 decoy (0)

3 thors (2)

1 brix (0)

1 rocket (1)

3 ports (3)


But, this also puts me squarely in the middle of the map to grab all these greens... where the flags were slightly outside the green radius - as shown, I managed to grab all the flags in a minute, without really greening at all and I was on the outter edges of the green patch, not right in the thick of it where I'd be a much larger target, and I was 'exposed' for a much shorter time while flagging..


It's this metric that makes flaggin appear to 'reward much better for less effort' than playing CZ and avoiding the flags to get to the same place ship strength wize.






 

[GC6]

Quote:<div>
The current bounty reset is 90 which isn't bad.

</div>

 

 

I agree, I figured it was right around there some place...


So, given my original suggestion, and using the 'bty to reset' as the base : we should lower the initial flag timer to 90 seconds...


Frankly I think if we link Bty to reset, flag timer, and team greens to the same number - we'd have a slighly better balance when it comes ot making the flaggers and the 'normal' players more equal in regards to the risk/reward cycle.


This is to say I'd go with :


120 second flag timer.

120 bty kill to reset the timer.

Team green share stops at 120.

Reduce the prize greens for all flag wins.


The act of flagging, resetting the timer, and winning the points should be what we're after for flagging... not giving them incentive which allows them to forego the majority of chaos play to be equally as powerful as those that do not.


Remember, the second we start going towards "flag to keep up with flagging" that makes us a flag zone, not Chaos. Whether or not you choose to participate in flagging to me is irrelevant - as the rewards for flagging are better than not flagging when it comes to what generally allows advantages to occur in this zone.

[ZiGNoTZaG]

All other factors aside, shortening the timer will not encourage engagement, here is how the flag game is played by those who are after the points...

 

Check ?Jackpot. Check !flags. Check ?flags.

 

Begin to collect free flags described by !flags. Upon reaching the last free but before picking it up check ?flags again. If someone else you think is after the flags is carrying wait until they check !flags and come for it. As they approach grab the flag. Now you have more time then them. If its someone who will beat you, run away until they drop and begin spamming !flags so that as soon as they spawn you collect another one to reset your timer. Worst case scenario is that you also drop and can begin the above described cycle all over again. "If I cant have it, nobody will"

 

Again. Flag games are running games. Will not be changed. Unless its a strong frequency a lone flag carrier will use the above method every single time, you would have to make the flag timer borderline impossible to win to make it a killing game. With a shorter timer, a lower bty reset would actually be more of move in right direction then a higher one.

 

reset is 100 bty IIRC. <nm,90 corrected by axe>

 

And too be fair, there are a few players who more actively hunt down other flag carriers. But that is the exception, and even they resort to the 'Wait you out' method when countered by it.

[Axe Demento]

hey we are almost chatting on this topic

 

The lower the flag timer the more running people will do to get the flag.  I think its an inverse relationship.  Unlimited timer means you find out who can wait longer or who will chase or hide more successfully.

 

 

.  You could of course fix that by having drop flags owned like i do in my Kaos Settings.  But i also only have a 12 second timer so you really have to fight if you want to keep the flags.  But that is set to that to make the flags more part of basing or zone defending method.  Where you get the flags then put them some where then get back to fighting or defending.

 

Between the 3 of us i think we are hitting on the main parts. If i'm wrong correct me.

CG6 - Flags are 2 powerful they take away from just fighting.

Ziggy- Flags are flags its never really going to change

Axe- Flags are fine just change the settings  keep it mostly the same.

 

We should start a poll for fun

1 GET RID OF FLAGS

2 KEEP FLAGS the SAME

3 Change Flag Settings

4 Adopt the PowerFlag

5 Bring in the Warzone base flags!

 

....Axe

ps if one of you knows how to do a poll make it so number1

[Captor]

my 50 cents,

 

add powerball into pub, just for fun. It doesn't have to do anything

 

It would attract players to play powerball more too?

 

-Captor

[Axe Demento]

I doubt they will as it has been met with great hate the few times its shown up.  Ziggy when he was doing one of his custom maps put it in and the backlash was fairly harsh.  I actually like the powerball myself  thats why i put it in my Kaos map.

I think the power balls are better suited for fighting if you allow bullets and bombs.  You can't warp away while you have it unless you jump in a wormhole.  I like allowing the powerup and using the flags as BLOOD BALLS  I think they are even better then the power up flags.  Pity you can't have separate power ups for flags/balls.  ie have the balls give power and the flags give points.  But they are tied into similar settings if you do the power up.

 

I also like psyops approach of allowing several types of games to go on in the same main arena.  Ie space out the map so you can do just about everything all together.  So have a spot for 4v4.  have a neg area.  dueling special event all in one.  

 

But i really feel that if the zone winners each got a vote towards some decisions in the zone it would be great.  Win the zone get to choose a map.  Or some other list of option hallu would be fine with. 

 

...Axe

SSDZ KAOS we have 4 balls

[GC6]

After talking to more flaggers last night, and arguably one of the top, most active flaggers in the zone other than Axe ;

I think we can find a clear consensus to remove the prize rewards entirely.


It was a simple question I posed actually..


 

"would you still flag if you got no green reward for it?"


The reply :  "yes I would definitely flag" followed by :  "I dont even like the green reward ~ the green reward was designed to get some non-flaggers started doing it...it hasnt worked that well"



I guess I'll make this my 'final position' on this matter... 

Remove the prize greens entirely, leave the rest of the flag game as it is.



Flaggers that enjoy flagging for the sake of flagging, still get flag points, and will still flag by the looks of it.


As well, not handing them fully stocked ships for the priviledge might make flag games run a bit longer (making higher jackpots) and require a little more action than the constant cat and mouse game it is now, as there should end up being more parity between the flaggers and everyone else. Flaggers will have to actively green to remain strong, like everyone else in the zone....


And thus really concludes my thoughts on this matter... 



Thank You everyone for the discussion... I'd like to say we'll see something happen, but thus far, the silence of those that can make changes is deafening... not that I think they aren't listening - just be nice to see some 'official' word on things... anything really... not just this...


Anywho..carry on. 


 

[Axe Demento]

i have enjoyed this conversation on flagging

I think everyone made valid points but as far as a change that is up to the main man himself

 

Now I am also encouraging 15 minute safe zones i just updated the thread on that matter.

 

As i no longer need the extended safezone my feeling is most people will enjoy it being 15minutes.

 

Heheh i wont say where but somewhere now has 168 hour safezones  

 

Ziggy i just saw your graphics for your evil wzl very scary i like it.

 

..Axe

[Nude For Satan]

GC6 please keep in mind that serial flaggers might very well be in favour of removing the bounty prize because it makes them a target to bounty hunters. Many big game hunters in chaos will target the big bounties regardless of whether or not they are carrying flags. Removing the bounty hike might work very much to a flagger's favour.

[Mr. B-Hole]

I flag constantly. It's basically what i like about chaos. I don't have any suggestions for changing it because I think it works great the way it is as long as no one is "gaming" the rules. Since Axe left, no one is gaming the rules. There is now a healthy flags game with a decent amount of interested players. The reward makes for high BTY ships which is attractive to hunters and I really don't think anyone minds the high bty ships being present (I could be wrong, dunno). I'm not opposed to lowering the reward some. But you can't fairly divide the bty reward amongst the winning freq members according to flags held as a freq member may hold almost all the flags for most the game and end up with only a few or none at the end, even though that member was hugely instrumental in procuring the win.  Almost all of the other changes you are proposing really open the door more for those who might wish to game the system. Changes to the flagging that do not encourage flagging both for current flaggers and for flags newbs are a bad idea. The more interested the zone gets in flagging, the more fun everyone has, including non flaggers.