Did Rage and 9-Volt+ abuse the rules?

[mindriot]

I was playing well last night and thoroughly enjoying myself. 

Rage decided to play the final Practice Match of the night. My team was tired and slowly began to die, Rage traded kills with my team mate and they both died out leaving me in a precarious 3 on 1 situation. 

I fought hard and began to chip away at the enemy team's lead by getting kills. Odin was reduced to a whining baby because he couldn't handle the pressure. If you're playing league and cannot win a 3 on 1 when the lone pilot is actively attacking you, you don't belong in pro and should remain in spec.

Upon seeing my potential win, Rage had the captain of his team kick a player and subbed in as Jake to hold me off. 

I would like to know if this is legal. To add insult to injury, 9-Volt+ was watching the abuse unfold and did absolutely nothing to stop it, you can check the log to see that he was present and watching. Is it because he plays on Sterling?

The match ended with Jake and his team mate refusing to attack me. He had 4 lives and could not kill me. What a pitiful way to represent all that bravado Rage. You acted like a coward and I lost all respect for you.

The Practice Match in question is here:

http://svssubspace.com/?page=Game&id=1293404&season=0

You can clearly see that Jake subbed in after Rage was sent to spec. You can also read the spec log to verify.

Where is the honor? Where is the valor? This game has been reduced to nonsense such as outlined above, and to top it all off, a moderator did nothing to stop it because he is on the same team as the abuser.

Everyone complains about this game dying and it is clear why.

[Plarep]

Quote:Things that are bannable -- everything bannable in pracs is also bannable in matches, but not necessarily vice versa, we do not have a command other than ban to fix most of these issues:
Playing for more than 3 lives, using any method.

Quote:Things that require mod presence / player conduct (use !burn, !refend, etc.):
Running in a prac without engaging while losing. !refend by an online mod. Players who like to do this should consider hitting f11. The prac will end and you will not have a death.

I will give my version of the event, which I believe is corroborated by the log (http://svssubspace.com/?page=Game&id=1293404). Game was 3v1 11-5 at 13 minutes. Mindriot ran continuously backward backlobbing for 10 more minutes while the other team suicided at him. Rage got on Jake and subbed in for a-virus, then chased Mindriot some more while he continue running. After Jake and Odin finally chased him into a corner, Odin rocketted and repped him away for no reason. The game finally ended with both teams on opposite sides of a corner/wall sitting still firing bullets at that wall as time ran out.

Calling what Mindriot did "engaging" is laughable. Jake also should be banned for playing for more than 3 lives. What should have happened is that 9-Volt+ should have just !refend to stop the arena from dying (which it did).

[mindriot]

(12-02-2014, 09:13 PM)Plarep Wrote:  

Quote:Things that are bannable -- everything bannable in pracs is also bannable in matches, but not necessarily vice versa, we do not have a command other than ban to fix most of these issues:
Playing for more than 3 lives, using any method.

Quote:Things that require mod presence / player conduct (use !burn, !refend, etc.):
Running in a prac without engaging while losing. !refend by an online mod. Players who like to do this should consider hitting f11. The prac will end and you will not have a death.

I will give my version of the event, which I believe is corroborated by the log (http://svssubspace.com/?page=Game&id=1293404). Game was 3v1 11-5 at 13 minutes. Mindriot ran continuously backward backlobbing for 10 more minutes while the other team suicided at him. Rage got on Jake and subbed in for a-virus, then chased Mindriot some more while he continue running. After Jake and Odin finally chased him into a corner, Odin rocketted and repped him away for no reason. The game finally ended with both teams on opposite sides of a corner/wall sitting still firing bullets at that wall as time ran out.

Calling what Mindriot did "engaging" is laughable. Jake also should be banned for playing for more than 3 lives. What should have happened is that 9-Volt+ should have just !refend to stop the arena from dying (which it did).

I'm sorry but that is incorrect and you are lying. You are on Sterling, of course you are going to skew events to favor Rage/Jake/9-Volt so your opinion is invalid as you have a clear conflict of interest.

Have you ever watched anyone play against 3 or 4 players at the same time? You obviously have so the fact that you are feigning ignorance and lying right now is laughable and expected.

I did not score any of my 4 kills with back lobs or mines. They were not suiciding me, they were trying to kill me. Part of the reason they were unsuccessful is because Odin sat motionless and cried while the other 2 fought me.

I lured them into obstacles where I could bounce back with emp spears. It was successful three times with close range gun duel kills. I was using their frustration against them. They burned their reps trying to force me into closed spaces and failed, resulting in easy targets. The 4th kill which sent Domaniac to spectate was a result of me rocketing him.

You don't charge full force into 3 players, you play a tactical game and choose your moments. Have you ever seen kdak play against 3 or 4 players? I was using the very same strategy you probably praised him for. Try to be honest, your deceit only reflects poorly on your character.

[Plarep]

(12-02-2014, 09:17 PM)mindriot Wrote:  

(12-02-2014, 09:13 PM)Plarep Wrote:  

Quote:Things that are bannable -- everything bannable in pracs is also bannable in matches, but not necessarily vice versa, we do not have a command other than ban to fix most of these issues:
Playing for more than 3 lives, using any method.

Quote:Things that require mod presence / player conduct (use !burn, !refend, etc.):
Running in a prac without engaging while losing. !refend by an online mod. Players who like to do this should consider hitting f11. The prac will end and you will not have a death.

I will give my version of the event, which I believe is corroborated by the log (http://svssubspace.com/?page=Game&id=1293404). Game was 3v1 11-5 at 13 minutes. Mindriot ran continuously backward backlobbing for 10 more minutes while the other team suicided at him. Rage got on Jake and subbed in for a-virus, then chased Mindriot some more while he continue running. After Jake and Odin finally chased him into a corner, Odin rocketted and repped him away for no reason. The game finally ended with both teams on opposite sides of a corner/wall sitting still firing bullets at that wall as time ran out.

Calling what Mindriot did "engaging" is laughable. Jake also should be banned for playing for more than 3 lives. What should have happened is that 9-Volt+ should have just !refend to stop the arena from dying (which it did).

I'm sorry but that is incorrect and you are lying. You are on Sterling, of course you are going to skew events to favor Rage/Jake so your opinion is invalid as you have a clear conflict of interest.

Have you ever watched anyone play against 3 or 4 players at the same time? You obviously have so the fact that you are feigning ignorance and lying right now is laughable. I did not score any of my 4 kills with back lobs or mines. I bounced back into them and got all 4 kills with guns at close range and bounced off something to escape. The 4th kill which sent one of them to spectate was a forward rocket as well.

You don't charge full force into 3 players, you play a tactical game and choose your moments. Try to be honest, your deceit only reflects poorly on your character.

Are you retarded? You ran backwards continuously and everytime they got in range you fired a backlob and a mine. Of course then they'd be low and you can bounce off a rock and fire back. That's what people mean when they say not engaging. You never went forward except off bounces after they overfire at you as you backlob and mine. Read the log. Read what people said in blue. Read the mine count. Yes, you can call it "tactical" and "choosing your moments". Most people just call it not engaging and it's a generally frustrating way to end the game. You think Odin couldn't've done the same thing you did after the other two rocket suicide out? As average as he is, he had two full ships and could've just ran all day compared to your one empty ship, doing the same thing as you did.

What you did was dumb and killed the arena, and somehow you fail to see that at all and think you were right and honorable, which is the laughable part about all this. I said what I said not because I'm on Sterling, but because I was in spec and saw the second half of it. Go ask the other people in spec what they saw.

[mindriot]

(12-02-2014, 09:24 PM)Plarep Wrote:  

(12-02-2014, 09:17 PM)mindriot Wrote:  

(12-02-2014, 09:13 PM)Plarep Wrote:  

Quote:Things that are bannable -- everything bannable in pracs is also bannable in matches, but not necessarily vice versa, we do not have a command other than ban to fix most of these issues:
Playing for more than 3 lives, using any method.

Quote:Things that require mod presence / player conduct (use !burn, !refend, etc.):
Running in a prac without engaging while losing. !refend by an online mod. Players who like to do this should consider hitting f11. The prac will end and you will not have a death.

I will give my version of the event, which I believe is corroborated by the log (http://svssubspace.com/?page=Game&id=1293404). Game was 3v1 11-5 at 13 minutes. Mindriot ran continuously backward backlobbing for 10 more minutes while the other team suicided at him. Rage got on Jake and subbed in for a-virus, then chased Mindriot some more while he continue running. After Jake and Odin finally chased him into a corner, Odin rocketted and repped him away for no reason. The game finally ended with both teams on opposite sides of a corner/wall sitting still firing bullets at that wall as time ran out.

Calling what Mindriot did "engaging" is laughable. Jake also should be banned for playing for more than 3 lives. What should have happened is that 9-Volt+ should have just !refend to stop the arena from dying (which it did).

I'm sorry but that is incorrect and you are lying. You are on Sterling, of course you are going to skew events to favor Rage/Jake so your opinion is invalid as you have a clear conflict of interest.

Have you ever watched anyone play against 3 or 4 players at the same time? You obviously have so the fact that you are feigning ignorance and lying right now is laughable. I did not score any of my 4 kills with back lobs or mines. I bounced back into them and got all 4 kills with guns at close range and bounced off something to escape. The 4th kill which sent one of them to spectate was a forward rocket as well.

You don't charge full force into 3 players, you play a tactical game and choose your moments. Try to be honest, your deceit only reflects poorly on your character.

Are you retarded? You ran backwards continuously and everytime they got in range you fired a backlob and a mine. Of course then they'd be low and you can bounce off a rock and fire back. That's what people mean when they say not engaging. You never went forward except off bounces after they overfire at you as you backlob and mine. Read the log. Read what people said in blue. Read the mine count. Yes, you can call it "tactical" and "choosing your moments". Most people just call it not engaging and it's a generally frustrating way to end the game. You think Odin couldn't've done the same thing you did after the other two rocket suicide out? As average as he is, he had two full ships and could've just ran all day compared to your one empty ship, doing the same thing as you did.

What you did was dumb and killed the arena, and somehow you fail to see that at all and think you were right and honorable, which is the laughable part about all this. I said what I said not because I'm on Sterling, but because I was in spec and saw the second half of it. Go ask the other people in spec what they saw.

There is nothing in the rules that says you cannot mine. There is nothing in the rules that says you have to engage in a way *YOU* think is right.  There is also nothing in the rules that states I cannot play out my last life.

The rules do state however, that you cannot die out, and sub back in as an aliased player.

Rage and 9-volt violated the rules. Your opinion of how I played is irrelevant as I was engaging, whether you liked it or not. I scored 4 kills. You don't score 4 kills by not engaging.

Go ahead and read the log and you will see that a lot of players were calling me a Beast when I was scoring kills. Go ahead and read it. Odin was the only one who was crying.

You were even trying to give advise on how to kill me.

If you play in league and cannot trap and kill 1 pilot with 3, than you don't belong in league. Simple as that. Rage cheated and 9-Volt let him do it. VIOLATION

[Peeking Duck?]

Plare,

As far as I know there are no rules against backlobbing and mines are obviously legal as otherwise they'd be taken out of the game. As for Mind's behaviour during this prac I can't comment as I wasn't there. However, if he wasn't in a Jav, then his opponents should've been able to chase him down without too much bother.

This concludes this edition of The Peeking's Court,
Judge Duck presiding

[mindriot]

(12-02-2014, 11:18 PM)Peeking Duck? Wrote:  Plare,

As far as I know there are no rules against backlobbing and mines are obviously legal as otherwise they'd be taken out of the game. As for Mind's behaviour during this prac I can't comment as I wasn't there. However, if he wasn't in a Jav, then his opponents should've been able to chase him down without too much bother.

This concludes this edition of The Peeking's Court,
Judge Duck presiding

I was in a weasel. Also, if you look at the damage stats, you can see that I caused 25k more damage than Odin who caused the most damage for their team. I was clearly attacking and going after kills. I don't know how people expect me to hold still when 3 pilots are attacking me, or expect me to plow into all 3 of them without any strategy.

I was moving and using obstacles to create opportunities, it was working because I scored 4 kills and that's when they opted to cheat.  Also, I think its hysterical that Plare brought up "backlobbing" as everyone in this game back lobs every day including him. It's part of the game, everyone does it. Trying to apply some elitist ideal that noone lives up to is an exercise of madness, not skill.

[Plarep]

Alright, you have all convinced me and I changed my mind. I now also fully support anyone's decision to run out a 13 minute prac to 30 minutes. I also support their decision to spec if that is their choice. I also support the other team speccing if that is their choice as well. You can't force people to play or not play, and it's a useless endeavor to do so.

[McLaren]

1. If i hadn't of sucked hardcore that prac i might of seen what happened.

2. I've never seen Mindriot purposely try and destroy an arena. The fact that we had won 5/6 pracs in a row at that point, that he was in a weasel and not a jav, and that he was getting kills tells me he was trying to win.

3. Plarep... i really don't understand your definition of "engaging". Not engaging in my opinion is getting in a jav, running, and making no attempt at killing the other team. Nobody, that is really trying to win is going to stop running, turn around, and pew pew pew 3 people.

4. If you don't want to chase against a guy trying to win then spec.

5. Regardless, none of these points mean cheating is okay.

[Gruntster]

I was there and saw spec'ing mindriot the entire time. Yeah he was running but it was 3V1 lol. They should have stopped whining and killed him. He did a great job getting several kills.

[Arctos]

Quote:Odin> game's already over

I second that. All you do at 1v3 is prolong the inevitable and kill the arena, which apparently you succeeded with. It's a practice game, noone cares what you can do 1v3.

Also, I'd take plare's word over most players. I seriously doubt he's lying.

What we need is a way to end these games to be able to move on to the next prac faster. Add something to the bot so that any cap can force end a prac that is 3 or 4v1 with a commanding lead.

[mindriot]

(12-03-2014, 01:07 PM)Arctos Wrote:  

Quote:Odin> game's already over

I second that. All you do at 1v3 is prolong the inevitable and kill the arena, which apparently you succeeded with. It's a practice game, noone cares what you can do 1v3.

Also, I'd take plare's word over most players. I seriously doubt he's lying.

What we need is a way to end these games to be able to move on to the next prac faster. Add something to the bot so that any cap can force end a prac that is 3 or 4v1 with a commanding lead.

You weren't there. The game wasn't over.

I had a life left and scored 4 kills, and sent someone to the bench leaving 2 enemies before they decided to cheat. I would have won that game.

If you cannot trap and kill 1 pilot with 3, you don't believe in league, simple as that.

The final score was 11 - 9 and I still had a lot of steam in the tank.

Plare was skewing the truth. All you need to do is read the log to verify that. 

[McLaren]

(12-03-2014, 01:07 PM)Arctos Wrote:  

Quote:Odin> game's already over

I second that. All you do at 1v3 is prolong the inevitable and kill the arena, which apparently you succeeded with. It's a practice game, noone cares what you can do 1v3.

Also, I'd take plare's word over most players. I seriously doubt he's lying.

What we need is a way to end these games to be able to move on to the next prac faster. Add something to the bot so that any cap can force end a prac that is 3 or 4v1 with a commanding lead.

Nobody else may care what you do 1v3 but, is it not your right as a player to practice your skills 1v3 in the event you face that situation in a real match?

[Peeking Duck?]

(12-04-2014, 01:25 AM)McLaren Wrote:  

(12-03-2014, 01:07 PM)Arctos Wrote:  

Quote:Odin> game's already over

I second that. All you do at 1v3 is prolong the inevitable and kill the arena, which apparently you succeeded with. It's a practice game, noone cares what you can do 1v3.

Also, I'd take plare's word over most players. I seriously doubt he's lying.

What we need is a way to end these games to be able to move on to the next prac faster. Add something to the bot so that any cap can force end a prac that is 3 or 4v1 with a commanding lead.

Nobody else may care what you do 1v3 but, is it not your right as a player to practice your skills 1v3 in the event you face that situation in a real match?

Yes. And it needs to remain so. The only thing that requires changing is how the 'not engaging' rule can be enforced better as currently there is nothing in place.

[Caerbannog]

(12-04-2014, 02:30 AM)Peeking Duck? Wrote:  

(12-04-2014, 01:25 AM)McLaren Wrote:  

(12-03-2014, 01:07 PM)Arctos Wrote:  

Quote:Odin> game's already over

I second that. All you do at 1v3 is prolong the inevitable and kill the arena, which apparently you succeeded with. It's a practice game, noone cares what you can do 1v3.

Also, I'd take plare's word over most players. I seriously doubt he's lying.

What we need is a way to end these games to be able to move on to the next prac faster. Add something to the bot so that any cap can force end a prac that is 3 or 4v1 with a commanding lead.

Nobody else may care what you do 1v3 but, is it not your right as a player to practice your skills 1v3 in the event you face that situation in a real match?

Yes. And it needs to remain so. The only thing that requires changing is how the 'not engaging' rule can be enforced better as currently there is nothing in place.

Regarding the _two_ issues in the thread:
1) Rage has a 7 day ban (#VACation, anyone, eh?) -- as usual, the council could go about discussing about it and possibly lifting it, but read the reply I made to hallu's post before you rush anything  Oh, he's done this before btw.

2) The engaging / running issue isn't exactly simple, as seen above. Mindriot feels like he was not running for the sake of running, but instead playing smart. Some people will constantly cry about the whole "it's a prac" -admiral akhbar 2007 situation. Enforcing the rule manually is pretty much impossible (huge popularity contest). Automating it sounds both really tricky and easy to abuse (setting the criteria for auto-end or warning: about to end unless you do a barrel roll). Something in between would rely on people being active instead of being alt-tabbed (something like a vote for players and people in cap queue). And then there are some options that would further pracs from actual games even more, such as 1) lowering the prac timer from 30 minutes to 15 (most pracs are "over" before this is up anyway) or 1b) knocking off 5 minutes from the timer whenever someone dies out (unless it would instantly end the prac).

Anyhoo, my internet has been bitchy as of late and I don't really get to prac much so the more active players could probably do better in judging the situation.

[Arctos]

The point is it's selfish. You are ruining for everyone in the prac and everyone waiting to play the next one. Then you use the above mentioned as a reason why the game is dying when your running causes a whole lot more damage than ending the prac quickly, or for that matter banning someone for what happens in a prac that is already over. Stop arguing that it wasn't.

And why ban, come on. It's not like what he did disrupted the prac in any way. He simply replaced a slot that was open, where a player was kicked by someone else and even burned his toys. Who gives a shit if he already played in the prac. If anything leave it up to the player who was kicked, Nine.

I seriously hope the council overturns the ban because we are looking forward to playing a Sterling at full strength this sunday.

[Nude For Satan]

I watched this prac quietly from sometime shortly after Mindriot got the first of the four kills he has been repeatedly mentioning. I have a bunch of thoughts but they go both ways. I do not play for Sterling. I have never played for, nor had any affiliation with, Sterling. I do not even have a rapport with anyone on Sterling.

Actually Arctos, A-virus was the sub-out for Jake. After publicly discussing whether he should he sub in, a-virus specced, then Rage left arena, then NINE subbed in, then Domaniac kicked NINE, then Jake entered the arena, then subbed in (and was not kicked). I don't think there's much argument that a-virus specced so that Rage could sub in. This is not a case of someone unfortunately dconning or having to leave, but an agreement to swap players. (my log includes entered and left arena notices). That NINE hopped in for 11 seconds is separate from the action as a whole.

On the other side of the coin, Mindriot you need to stop bignoting about the four kills you got as last man in, because two of them were very clearly suicides for toys/shipchange. I didn't see the first of the kills but I saw the next three.

Engagement isn't a do or don't scenario, it's a sliding scale. Yes mindriot engaged, he backlobbed, sometimes mined, and bounced back at anyone he had hit to give the emped enemy a spray. backlobbing, mining, multi bullets into the corner of a structure while running is technically engaging but for the purposes of prac health may not be sufficient, it's the diet coke of engaging ... not engaging enough.

But it's iffy. You can't just end any game at 4v or 3v1. I've watched Buny pick everyone off from that position before, and like anyone 1v3+ he had to keep on the move and wait for each enemy to take damage or overfire (miss). Buny didn't have the benefit of the weasel as his ship of choice. Nobody said "just end it, stop wasting time" then.

The winning team should imo have parked themselves in the middle of the arena and invited mindriot to attack. Winning teams are not required by the rules to "engage" in the endgame. Losing teams are. MR would have had to have either attacked or specced.

Mind you, when Rage (with Odin nearby) and Mindriot were parked either side of the wall at the end, each streaming bullets that weren't even aimed at each other but were merely taunts ... it is worth noting that Mindriot did edge up and around and get an emp in. While I'm not convinced he engaged enough during the prior 15 minutes, he did do exactly the right thing then.

The bloke you all need to speak to is 9-Volt. He took .stats right after Mindriot went to LL (13min expired), and again just after Odin suicided for a full ship (23min). Lets have a look at those stats and calculate the dpm Mindriot was doing during his LL.

[mindriot]

(12-04-2014, 10:39 AM)Nude For Satan Wrote:  I watched this prac quietly from sometime shortly after Mindriot got the first of the four kills he has been repeatedly mentioning. I have a bunch of thoughts but they go both ways. I do not play for Sterling. I have never played for, nor had any affiliation with, Sterling. I do not even have a rapport with anyone on Sterling.

Actually Arctos, A-virus was the sub-out for Jake. After publicly discussing whether he should he sub in, a-virus specced, then Rage left arena, then NINE subbed in, then Domaniac kicked NINE, then Jake entered the arena, then subbed in (and was not kicked). I don't think there's much argument that a-virus specced so that Rage could sub in. This is not a case of someone unfortunately dconning or having to leave, but an agreement to swap players. (my log includes entered and left arena notices). That NINE hopped in for 11 seconds is separate from the action as a whole.

On the other side of the coin, Mindriot you need to stop bignoting about the four kills you got as last man in, because two of them were very clearly suicides for toys/shipchange. I didn't see the first of the kills but I saw the next three.

Engagement isn't a do or don't scenario, it's a sliding scale. Yes mindriot engaged, he backlobbed, sometimes mined, and bounced back at anyone he had hit to give the emped enemy a spray. backlobbing, mining, multi bullets into the corner of a structure while running is technically engaging but for the purposes of prac health may not be sufficient, it's the diet coke of engaging ... not engaging enough.

But it's iffy. You can't just end any game at 4v or 3v1. I've watched Buny pick everyone off from that position before, and like anyone 1v3+ he had to keep on the move and wait for each enemy to take damage or overfire (miss). Buny didn't have the benefit of the weasel as his ship of choice. Nobody said "just end it, stop wasting time" then.

The winning team should imo have parked themselves in the middle of the arena and invited mindriot to attack. Winning teams are not required by the rules to "engage" in the endgame. Losing teams are. MR would have had to have either attacked or specced.

Mind you, when Rage (with Odin nearby) and Mindriot were parked either side of the wall at the end, each streaming bullets that weren't even aimed at each other but were merely taunts ... it is worth noting that Mindriot did edge up and around and get an emp in. While I'm not convinced he engaged enough during the prior 15 minutes, he did do exactly the right thing then.

The bloke you all need to speak to is 9-Volt. He took .stats right after Mindriot went to LL (13min expired), and again just after Odin suicided for a full ship (23min). Lets have a look at those stats and calculate the dpm Mindriot was doing during his LL.

Nude:

I do not feel like any kill was a result of a suicide. I got 2 kills with gun duels after bouncing back into the enemy. I earned a 3rd kill by bombing a frustrated Odin because he over extended after spending the first 5 to 10 minutes sitting idly and wining. Finally, I rocketed Domaniac from a coord away after I escaped from Odin and a-virus... he was not expecting it and died because he wasted 2 reps beforehand trying to trap me in an obstacle. I'm honestly considering recording all my games so that I don't have to keep repeating myself when I tell the truth. I have no reason to embellish events. Finally, to comment on the "stand off" in the last minute, if you recall, I was typing to Rage and letting him know that he was already out but did push forward nonetheless.

Arctos: 

You simply were not there. I have no idea how you can possibly state the prac was over when it wasn't. You cannot just force reality into your view of things just because you have an opinion on the rules of engagement. Your perception of events does not reflect facts. The prac wasn't over. Many 4 on 1's and 3 on 1's have been won in the past and I was on pace to win another, hence, why Rage opted to abuse the rules. I was playing the game and respecting the rules and using self-respect to not go gently into that good night. Finally Arctos, if you cannot trap and kill 1 pilot with 3 pilots than you do not belong in league.  I was flying a weasel.

Finally, to comment on Rage's ban. First of all, I did not expect Rage to get banned and was surprised when it was brought up. I genuinely wasn't sure if Rage subbing back in after dying out was abuse. I was not out for his head. I informed the pro council that if a ban is put in place, that it shouldn't be severe and implemented at the beginning of the week to give him a chance to prepare for his match on Sunday. I don't hate anyone in this game, even if they can be an asshole. All I want is people to show respect, for the game, the staff, and each-other. I never see you online Arctos but Rage is generally pretty abusive to everyone in the game. Not a day goes by where he does not insult/or put someone down, or the staff. If someone is trying hard to win a match, you should not interfere with it by abusing the rules because you have a chip on your shoulder, or because you have a personal perception of what is and what isn't winnable. That is the problem here and where Rage crossed the line. I played with respect for the game, the enemy, and myself and did not break or abuse any rules.

[Captor]

First of all: Domaniac as captain of the freq shouldnt have allow Jake to sub in. Something like a warning towards actin captain should be take place here too. 9-volt was there too and yet did nothing to stop Jake from subbing in for 4th life, which Jake probably knew that would be insta ban, thats superbad, especially that they are squaddies and therefore 9-volt sayings and acts about keeping the game clean from all these things towards Jake, would have probably stop Jake autobanning himself. 

More powers, responsibilities and punishments too needs to BE given towards prac captains who are in big role todays pracs, and keeping them clean, fair and competitive.

About Mindriot 1vs3 situation at 11-6, and keep fightning, there's nothing wrong about it. Sure it's annoying to the other team and for the speccers waiting to get a chance to play, but its a part of the 4v4 game endings, always has been.

[oldvet]

This is an interesting topic. The issue of someone running or not engaging after the prac is essentially over has been a frustration since 1996. While it's not against the rules to continue to play after you've basically lost, it is certainly dishonorable and selfish (I agree with Arctos here). 3 or 4 versus 1 is no longer a prac; it's an exercise in patience. By continuing to play, you were hoping the other team would get bored, impatient, and eventually suicide so that you could swindle them out of a win. Think of it like chess - when in a clear losing position the honorable thing to do is concede, instead of playing the game out or, even worse, letting your clock run out.

The solution to this problem: Once a prac becomes 3 or 4 versus 1 the bot should start a 2 minute timer (separate from the game clock). The game ends unless that 1 pilot can score a kill before the 2 minute timer runs out. If that 1 pilot is able to kill, the timer resets to 2 minutes. If a kill by that 1 pilot causes the game to become 2 versus 1, then the timer will no longer be used. Kills by the team in the lead do not reset the timer. The only exception to this should be if the game is tied (9-9 is the only possibility for this).

That said, the only one who broke an official rule was Rage. He has done this countless times and deserves the ban. Breaking the rules was not justified just because you disagreed with how Mindriot was playing. The community is already very small. Lawless behavior with no regard to the established rule set is cancerous and should not be tolerated.