Plareplane,
"On the other hand, players consciously dodge shraps all the time. Bombs have big enough prox that you often can't avoid getting hit by them, but they're often slow enough that you have a range of spots to skim them. Since shraps come out at the 8 corners, you just skim them anywhere else to avoid taking an extra 190 damage (which is pretty noticeable once you're yellow and numbers start appearing beside your ship)."
Assuming you're in open space (it cant be anywhere else since you didn't mention any bounces), those 8 shraps that come out are inactive and do 10 dmg, not 190. This means that most of the time they are largely irrelevant in the open, which is what I hinted on. With good technique you can get by paying minimal attention to them. Recall that I said, "the further the bomb is from me, the less dmg it will do." That means I agree that skimming is good. Skimming in the open, no matter how you do it, already puts you in a position to take minimal damage. It doesn't matter if you've chalked up in your mind how the 8 shrap are going to come out or not. That is why I disagree. You think people skim "accurately" to pre-dodge shrap, and I know they dont, because the vast majority of the time they dont need to. They dodge the shrap after it becomes visible, if anything. There isn't any huge predictive skills required here like you're suggesting there is.
Now lets take your example and put you inside an enclosure where the shraps can actually do 190 dmg:
Even if you do put yourself in a position to avoid the 8 (10 dmg) shrapnels when they come out, you arent protecting yourself from what is actually dangerous - the bounces that are about to compound the shrap damage by 1900%. In truth you were better off hitting them before they bounced. With all this said, I don't see your point, at all.
"Also, players can deliberately run through a bomb's prox to lower the damage taken by forcing the bomb to do some pb damage (esp against thors with its huge blast radius), but it's pretty situational (the bomb needs to be close to the shooter relative to its blast radius), and often times maybe it's more so the shooter making a bad choice of when to bomb than any reaction on the defender's part"
I know this, but what does it have to do with the discussion at hand?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crescendo,
5% is significant when the sample size is hundreds of thousands of games over close to two decades. 5% can contain very important league games. It took you 2 days to respond and you respond by quoting others who you think are pro players, when the fact of the matter is they are middle-skilled. In the future I would hope you could think for yourself, good things can happen.
You say I grabbed a quote out of context, and then you did the exact same thing to me. When I said pro league should be considered more of a casual game, I was more referring to this:
"and ultimately the end result of all the settings, the rules, and the map, is an environment where highly defensive play can keep the weak much more competitive than they should be."
and
"It makes sense that the harder thing to do should be the most rewarding, but 4v4 doesnt work that way"
And yes this is all made even worse by what you call <5% occurrences, and a 3 death limit.
All of this is why a lot of players seem to be so incompetent at judging things. Be it player skill (especially their own relative to others), what is actually happening in the game and why, etc. What you have is an environment full of obscurity to anyone except very few.
If we were in an environment where you were constantly forced to engage or lose, the truth would become much more obvious than it is. Those with worse fighting ability would constantly die (and I'm not just talking about bottom tier teams).
Again, this has nothing to do with settings changes since I already said Im not suggesting to change the core nature of league, simply shedding light on its flaws to people like you - who actually think its good design. I already knew I would get some unfavorable reactions but to say any of it is a lie, you're in denial.
"On the other hand, players consciously dodge shraps all the time. Bombs have big enough prox that you often can't avoid getting hit by them, but they're often slow enough that you have a range of spots to skim them. Since shraps come out at the 8 corners, you just skim them anywhere else to avoid taking an extra 190 damage (which is pretty noticeable once you're yellow and numbers start appearing beside your ship)."
Assuming you're in open space (it cant be anywhere else since you didn't mention any bounces), those 8 shraps that come out are inactive and do 10 dmg, not 190. This means that most of the time they are largely irrelevant in the open, which is what I hinted on. With good technique you can get by paying minimal attention to them. Recall that I said, "the further the bomb is from me, the less dmg it will do." That means I agree that skimming is good. Skimming in the open, no matter how you do it, already puts you in a position to take minimal damage. It doesn't matter if you've chalked up in your mind how the 8 shrap are going to come out or not. That is why I disagree. You think people skim "accurately" to pre-dodge shrap, and I know they dont, because the vast majority of the time they dont need to. They dodge the shrap after it becomes visible, if anything. There isn't any huge predictive skills required here like you're suggesting there is.
Now lets take your example and put you inside an enclosure where the shraps can actually do 190 dmg:
Even if you do put yourself in a position to avoid the 8 (10 dmg) shrapnels when they come out, you arent protecting yourself from what is actually dangerous - the bounces that are about to compound the shrap damage by 1900%. In truth you were better off hitting them before they bounced. With all this said, I don't see your point, at all.
"Also, players can deliberately run through a bomb's prox to lower the damage taken by forcing the bomb to do some pb damage (esp against thors with its huge blast radius), but it's pretty situational (the bomb needs to be close to the shooter relative to its blast radius), and often times maybe it's more so the shooter making a bad choice of when to bomb than any reaction on the defender's part"
I know this, but what does it have to do with the discussion at hand?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crescendo,
5% is significant when the sample size is hundreds of thousands of games over close to two decades. 5% can contain very important league games. It took you 2 days to respond and you respond by quoting others who you think are pro players, when the fact of the matter is they are middle-skilled. In the future I would hope you could think for yourself, good things can happen.
You say I grabbed a quote out of context, and then you did the exact same thing to me. When I said pro league should be considered more of a casual game, I was more referring to this:
"and ultimately the end result of all the settings, the rules, and the map, is an environment where highly defensive play can keep the weak much more competitive than they should be."
and
"It makes sense that the harder thing to do should be the most rewarding, but 4v4 doesnt work that way"
And yes this is all made even worse by what you call <5% occurrences, and a 3 death limit.
All of this is why a lot of players seem to be so incompetent at judging things. Be it player skill (especially their own relative to others), what is actually happening in the game and why, etc. What you have is an environment full of obscurity to anyone except very few.
If we were in an environment where you were constantly forced to engage or lose, the truth would become much more obvious than it is. Those with worse fighting ability would constantly die (and I'm not just talking about bottom tier teams).
Again, this has nothing to do with settings changes since I already said Im not suggesting to change the core nature of league, simply shedding light on its flaws to people like you - who actually think its good design. I already knew I would get some unfavorable reactions but to say any of it is a lie, you're in denial.