04-06-2011, 04:50 AM
[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1301925514' post='274385']
The mine times (2 min down to 1 min) and number of team mines (12 down to 8 ) were changed when the Flag with upgrades/downgrades was put in -- this was an experiment to try and re-balance the overpowered mine stacks possible with the flag bomb upgrade.
[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1301631368' post='274203']
How long for _anyone_ to notice such a change?
[/quote]
Answer: 29 days. When I put in the change, I thought they would be noticed in no more than two days time, and probably within hours (that was the guess of others I asked also). The mine time change was noticed within two days (not the first day). I was very surprised when the team mine limit change was not noticed -- my prediction was very short -- yet it was quite long before anyone noticed.
About changes: when doing user testing, one needs to collect objective data. When the user is informed of changes, the data is no longer objective, but biased. If a change is made, but the observed behavior does not change, then that shows the change has little/no effect. No one noticing this change, or changing their behavior for 29 days shows that the change was a minor one. That's interesting information.
Now that the experiment is complete and we have the data, number team mines will be changed back to 12 and mine times will be back to 2 minutes at the next reset. Based on observation, I think these minor changes would probably do little to help with the 'new player leaving' issue (see below).
12 mines per team was the standard SVS setting with 7 man freqs. That works out to less than 2 mines per person -- so that was the game design decision back then based on that much larger population. I remember leaving freqs where the other people would use all the mines (doing mine stacks and such) - I wanted to have at least one available for mining chasers. I would favor having the number of mines change with the freqsize, but will not implement that at this time.
It also appears that some people erroneously believe that many settings changes have been made during the past year. This is simply not the case. Here are the facts -- changes made in the last year:
1) shark -- this was a fairly major change
2) bty increase for kill -- raised from 6 to 12, and now to 20.
3) bouncing bomb damage percentage -- I found that somewhere in the last several years, someone nerfed the bouncing bomb damage to 80% of normal (which is interesting in light of lanc usage being in the tank). I've set it back to SVS normal of 100%.
[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1301674645' post='274233']
Mines are the NUMBER 1 way that new people to the zone can even get a kill.
[/quote]
That might be true for intermediate players, but it is not true for *actual* new players, who have no idea what a mine is. We lose the vast majority of people in the first 5-10 minutes of play (that's what 'new player' means) -- getting mine repped and dying instantly is a significant way that we lose these new players. No one likes dying suddenly and without understanding why. It's not fun, seems unfair, and so they leave.
Please be assured that mine repping is part of Chaos and will not be removed. But it is most decidedly not newb friendly. It is the only "one shot kill" we have in Chaos, and is the most risk-free way to get kills (which is why many pilots do not respect that style of play) -- these reasons are why mine stacks and mine repping are not a part of more 'skill based' SVS play such as League.
--hallu
[/quote]
What was the general view from most ppl about mines being 2mins versus 1min ?
Seemed to me like the only ppl complaining about 1min mines WAS the mine reppers (who now had replace those mines more frequently and risked death), and the ppl who like leaving mine stacks in main areas and leaving them there while they run off to less active areas.
The mine times (2 min down to 1 min) and number of team mines (12 down to 8 ) were changed when the Flag with upgrades/downgrades was put in -- this was an experiment to try and re-balance the overpowered mine stacks possible with the flag bomb upgrade.
[quote name='hallucination' timestamp='1301631368' post='274203']
How long for _anyone_ to notice such a change?
[/quote]
Answer: 29 days. When I put in the change, I thought they would be noticed in no more than two days time, and probably within hours (that was the guess of others I asked also). The mine time change was noticed within two days (not the first day). I was very surprised when the team mine limit change was not noticed -- my prediction was very short -- yet it was quite long before anyone noticed.
About changes: when doing user testing, one needs to collect objective data. When the user is informed of changes, the data is no longer objective, but biased. If a change is made, but the observed behavior does not change, then that shows the change has little/no effect. No one noticing this change, or changing their behavior for 29 days shows that the change was a minor one. That's interesting information.
Now that the experiment is complete and we have the data, number team mines will be changed back to 12 and mine times will be back to 2 minutes at the next reset. Based on observation, I think these minor changes would probably do little to help with the 'new player leaving' issue (see below).
12 mines per team was the standard SVS setting with 7 man freqs. That works out to less than 2 mines per person -- so that was the game design decision back then based on that much larger population. I remember leaving freqs where the other people would use all the mines (doing mine stacks and such) - I wanted to have at least one available for mining chasers. I would favor having the number of mines change with the freqsize, but will not implement that at this time.
It also appears that some people erroneously believe that many settings changes have been made during the past year. This is simply not the case. Here are the facts -- changes made in the last year:
1) shark -- this was a fairly major change
2) bty increase for kill -- raised from 6 to 12, and now to 20.
3) bouncing bomb damage percentage -- I found that somewhere in the last several years, someone nerfed the bouncing bomb damage to 80% of normal (which is interesting in light of lanc usage being in the tank). I've set it back to SVS normal of 100%.
[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1301674645' post='274233']
Mines are the NUMBER 1 way that new people to the zone can even get a kill.
[/quote]
That might be true for intermediate players, but it is not true for *actual* new players, who have no idea what a mine is. We lose the vast majority of people in the first 5-10 minutes of play (that's what 'new player' means) -- getting mine repped and dying instantly is a significant way that we lose these new players. No one likes dying suddenly and without understanding why. It's not fun, seems unfair, and so they leave.
Please be assured that mine repping is part of Chaos and will not be removed. But it is most decidedly not newb friendly. It is the only "one shot kill" we have in Chaos, and is the most risk-free way to get kills (which is why many pilots do not respect that style of play) -- these reasons are why mine stacks and mine repping are not a part of more 'skill based' SVS play such as League.
--hallu
[/quote]
What was the general view from most ppl about mines being 2mins versus 1min ?
Seemed to me like the only ppl complaining about 1min mines WAS the mine reppers (who now had replace those mines more frequently and risked death), and the ppl who like leaving mine stacks in main areas and leaving them there while they run off to less active areas.