Giving Coords in pub chat

[hallucination]

Jazz has recently been persistently giving coords of gad's turret in pub chat. He and capefire and perhaps others are less than happy about it from what I gather. He gave out my coords both on a turret and solo for a while last night, and for me, that was fun.



I'd like a discussion on and people's thoughts on giving out coords in pub chat.



First some info:



There is no way to prevent people from doing the exact same thing on priv chat, or team chats etc. If I have high bty I just always assume that someone is spec'ing me and giving out coords. If they give out my coords (or the coords of a turret I'm on) in pub I consider it a sign of recognition of achievement -- but it can also be a sign of lame play.



This has never been illegal previously. Excessive spamming of pub chat is illegal and giving coords often needs to be frequent enough to be classified as spam. We could never completely eliminate it in any case (just like spam).



Giving coords in chat is not remotely as helpful to hunting as watching a second Continuum client spec'ing the object of the chase -- it allows you see to the hunted's energy, direction, speed of travel, items, mines, traps, bricks laid, etc. all in real time. There is no comparison between the usefulness of the two.



It is virtually always done as a macro, so players can ignore public macros and not see any of the coords/spammage. Probably there are a number of ppl who don't even realize it's being done.



In the old days, for example, if someone mine repped a Warlord (or otherwise diss'ed him/her), the squad would band together, with one person spec'ing and giving info over squad chat, to hunt that person mercilessly, and embarrass them in chat by calling out their lame behavior.



Ok -- now what are your thoughts? I thought I'd give people a place to discuss and vent if they want <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Just fyi I'm highly disinclined to make a new rule about this, but as always, I'm willing to listen to reasonable arguments.



--hallu

[Yupa]

Zone by committee? And you wonder why the population suffers. Leave the poor game alone.

[Jazz]

LOL i think its funny that theyre complaining now <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />



Gadianton has been using weak/lame tactics for a LONNNNG time. For whatever reason, he thinks we should be impressed and amazed because he manages a decent ratio. Though its obtained by his TURRET mine repping, vulching from afar, lobbing bombs from his lanc turret, etc ..... which on its own isnt unusual. But, then if anyone even so much as looks at him he goes rocketing off all the way around the edges of the map dropping mines for chasers, portaling/door-warping, and of course they all award themselves bonuses to survive and get away. Annnd if its still too difficult, he goes and hides in a safe zone till the coast is clear for him to go back to powering up to continue laming <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />

I, like others, have tried to engage this turret if i see it, or right after it tries a mine rep on me ..... but even an attempt to start turning, he doesnt bother to try and fight .... hes already running away again. And since he does this ALLLLLLL the time, you can never find him.

Im sure most of the people here are aware of all this, but im just giving a brief recap for those who may not <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />





Anyway, people have been annoyed by this for awhile now. And usually when anyone comments on this in public, the Gadianton turret ignores the comments, mocks the others for 'whining', etc or makes some kind of comment as though they have somehow made a major achievement <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> .

I dont know if anyones noticed, but Gads current squad name is "Zonekiller". When ppl commented that his tactics might be ruining the zone, he made a claim along the lines that he didnt care and that he was going to try and kill the zone <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' />

And now he and his usual turret gunners (Capefire, Jenn_B, etc) are whining that IM making it less fun for THEM ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> ... amusing.





Besides, it seems like everyone else is having fun now though <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

People can locate the turret if they want to hunt, or they are aware when its in their vicinity to try some laming attempt from out of sight of the target <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> The turret is still getting lots of kills on the chasers (mostly because theyre from different pub freqs and damage each other quite abit in their haste) ......but now the turret has to work for kills against targets that know its there <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clapping.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':clapping:' />





And i wasnt really aware of this, but Polix made a post in another thread ..... <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



[quote name='Jazz' timestamp='1301508636' post='274170']

[quote name='PoLiX' timestamp='1301454769' post='274162']

Maybe have the freq size not be lowered until population lowers, and all freqs of that size are gone.



We know Gad purposely multi-clients to pad the population so he can get an extra person on his frequency. Then they disconnect, freq sizes go down, and there is no chance of another large freq working against him. There are occasionally other turrets of course, but I'm sure he is the main one everyone is talkin about.



Definately worth a thought.

[/quote]



wait ... you know that he intentionally multi-clients sometimes ? just to temporarily increase freq size for his turrret ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/shok.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

<img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> i wouldnt be surprised if he reaches those new heights of lameness

[/quote]



Even if he doesnt do this all the time, the fact that its done at ALL speaks volumes.

2 nights ago, the turret had 3 ppl on it in a zone of 10 ppl (about 1/3). Last night there were 4ppl on the turret in a zone that at the time had 14-16 ppl (~1/4).

And this is a turret that runs away <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Jazz]

oops ..... forgot ...... <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/happy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

in response to Hallu's post .....



I can see the point about 'spam' and when hallu asked me to cut back on the number of posts, i did.

As mentioned, it IS a macro, so it can be ignored easily. I only post an individual msg at a time (unless theres some drastic change ... such as an immediate warp). Alot of ppl arent talking in public, so at a glance it may look like theres alot of posts ... even though theres a separation in time. Plus im also something of a chat-whore and talk too much anyway (even when playing) <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />





People have said that turrets can be fun ..... and i agree. Personally i suck as a turret pilot because i take too many risks. But ive had fun being a gunner. However, most turrets ive been on look for action and head to areas with activity, and that makes it fun. Being chased by hunters is also fun. Ive been on turrets where i posted the location myself just to let ppl know <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />





I wouldnt mind also chasing the turret too ..... but it gets boring if hes just going to run away for hours at a time. And you cant find him anyway. I think itd be funny as hell if EVERYONE took a turn giving his coords <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lol.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> (one person at a time of course .... to avoid excess spam)

I can understand Hallu's dilemma ..... but i dont really see any point to this thread. When people complained about them being lame, it was fine, and a source of humour. But now theyre whining because im making it more difficult for them to be lame ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wacko:' />



Incidentally, when i posted coords less frequently as requested, i had people pvting me or asking in pub for the coords <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> As i said then, and as i'll say now, its fairer for EVERYONE if its made public so everyone has the same information to work with <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Nude For Satan]

As you'll remember Jazz I've messaged you a few times, not to ask you to stop giving coords, but to ask you to stop giving them too frequently. You'd always complied with responding



My position is definitely that giving coords is fine. Just don't make the chat screen ugly with over-posting them.

[PsyOps]

Seems like gad always does exactly what he complains about. Chaos is supposed to be oriented towards hunters and every last bit of gad's actions and requests have been oriented towards weak unskilled players that back arrow or turret.



I've been playing chaos/alpha since 96/97 and pub coords have never been illegal, and i don't see why it should be. For a SKILLED driver, that just makes the game more interesting.



If there is an issue to be discussed it should be how to manage freqs when the FreqMode has been dropped and how the remaining freqs should lose the excess players when it does. Maybe add a rule for it, so that in the rare case you actually catch gad in the act, he could be banned. My suggestion has always been perma-ban Gad. Seems like gad has done everything he can to find loopholes in the rules and use them to his advantage. I think i posted about it once before when he was using !rabbit to get away from ppl chasing him.



I am one to admit that i am a hunter, and as far as gad back-arrowing and turreting, all is fair in love and war, but i enjoy it. I always jump in and force him to spec like a coward or i end up leaving because he waits everyone out in safe. But when he goes out of his way to cheat in the manner that he does,- like double machines- I think that the zone will benefit greatly if he is banned permanently or for a long time.



Stop whining Gad. Quit for good. or maybe just quit playing and do something constructive for ss, design maps, write bots. Perhaps if you were a good influence you would have been given a staff position ages ago. Truth be told, you have nothing good to offer. Where are your ideas? maps? designs?



boo i ranted. my appologies.



Public coords: i say leave it be.

now the vote should be: Perma ban Gad? - you have my vote.





-PsyOps

[Capefire]

Calling out Coords, Reps, Energy, from each player should be illegal. It's not fair. There is no way around it, IT IS NO DIFFERENT than having a BOT in spec calling out peoples stuff ,and you can say im crying then so be it, but it is not fair and thats my opinion, and Jazz don't try to say you do it with everyone, you only do it when Gad has a Turret going, and did it to Hallu the other night out of spite.



Psyops- why the HATE for Gad ? Does he really Whine and Cry, I think all of his points have been Valid.

[Jazz]

<img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> Gad doesnt need to whine .... when he has you to do it for him <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mega_shok.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':despair:' />





No Capefire, i dont call it out for everyone. Thats my choice who i call it for, or if i even want to <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Others may decide to call it for different ppl too. You were even calling my coords out after i ticked off you, Jenn_B, and Gad <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> ..... difference was that i didnt really care <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pardon.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':happy:' />

Besides, MOST ppl dont go running off to hide, so coords wouldnt make much difference anyway ......





Someone who has apparently violated rules consistently, and even recently has logged in with multiple accounts to artificially increase zone numbers to increase his gunners and then reduces it to prevent other freqs getting too big ...... has got you (his designated mouthpiece ?) to whine about OTHER ppl cheating ..... <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />

Seriously Capefire ? Thats your idol ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mega_shok.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':despair:' />

Maybe if you tried playing more instead of riding Gad, you wouldnt need to rely on his lame tactics to get you kills, and the practice would pay off <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unknw.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />

The other day i actually saw you WITHOUT a turret ..... and i left you alone at first, because i honestly dont have an issue with you at all. But you kept trying to mine rep me. Then you finally came to attack ONLY when the other guy on your freq came after me. However, when i kill him, you then go running off again. Is this what youre learning from Gad ? If youre so desperate for kills, you can mine rep me if you want, because i dont really care about stats <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drinks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':drinks:' />

[Gadianton]

[quote name='PsyOps' timestamp='1301522458' post='274181']

Chaos is supposed to be oriented towards hunters



-PsyOps

[/quote]



Ding ding ding.... You hit the nail on the head. i don't BELIEVE that the chaos zone should be oriented towards hunters. I believe that all play styles can and should be allowed to play. I have a problem with hunters and admins running around changing zone settings because they cant kill turrets. its the same old story of the past 5 years on this forum. Hunters cry... and then the admins change the settings. i can provide a LONG list of changes that have been made ... however i've posted them in the past and people cry that the post is to long to read....

[Jazz]

Hunters go after anyone ...turrets, or other players.

That doesnt mean the turret cant BE the hunter ...... <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drinks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':happy:' />

[Gadianton]

Hunters don't go after everyone. They don't chase down 50 bounty players... unless there name is "Gadianton". Hunters look for the big bounty players and go after them.



Some times i hunt. Typically i lay mines and wait for the big bounty players to run into my mines. Chasing someone is dangerous and i could DIE which makes me cry

[PsyOps]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1301672518' post='274228']

[quote name='PsyOps' timestamp='1301522458' post='274181']

Chaos is supposed to be oriented towards hunters



-PsyOps

[/quote]



Ding ding ding.... You hit the nail on the head. i don't BELIEVE that the chaos zone should be oriented towards hunters. I believe that all play styles can and should be allowed to play. I have a problem with hunters and admins running around changing zone settings because they cant kill turrets. its the same old story of the past 5 years on this forum. Hunters cry... and then the admins change the settings. i can provide a LONG list of changes that have been made ... however i've posted them in the past and people cry that the post is to long to read....

[/quote]





I didn't make my point clear. I should have worded differently.

Should read: According to gad, Chaos is supposed to be oriented towards hunters. Yet every last bit of gad's actions and requests have been oriented towards ONE type of play, weak unskilled players that back arrow or turret.

[Jazz]

[quote name='Gadianton' timestamp='1301673844' post='274232']

Hunters don't go after everyone. They don't chase down 50 bounty players... unless there name is "Gadianton". Hunters look for the big bounty players and go after them.



Some times i hunt. Typically i lay mines and wait for the big bounty players to run into my mines. Chasing someone is dangerous and i could DIE which makes me cry

[/quote]



Hunt ? Chase ?? YOU ? <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

i mustve blinked. <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' />



I said hunters go after anyone.

That means they go after whoever they choose. Whether its a single ship, or a turret, or a decoy, etc ... whatever floats their boat <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

And dont be so dramatic playing the victim. Ppl in chaos will kill a 50bty ship no matter what its name is. And i would attack while greening even when im 50bty myself ...... because in Chaos with your spawn bty, you may already HAVE a decent ship to begin with. If i have minimum 90% energy, and minimum L2 guns ...im good to go <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':happy:' /> Id PREFER 100% energy, L3 guns and L2 bombs, and at least 1-2 repels on a spawn ..... and i would basically consider that a full strength ship ANYWAY, and take on any ship or turret with that spawn <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unknw:' /> <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



As i said, a turret can BE the hunter too. When a larger turret CONSTANTLY runs away even from a single ship, thats pretty pathetic.

[Caerbannog]

[quote name='Capefire' timestamp='1301665714' post='274219']

Calling out Coords, Reps, Energy, from each player should be illegal. It's not fair. There is no way around it, IT IS NO DIFFERENT than having a BOT in spec calling out peoples stuff ,and you can say im crying then so be it, but it is not fair and thats my opinion, and Jazz don't try to say you do it with everyone, you only do it when Gad has a Turret going, and did it to Hallu the other night out of spite.



Psyops- why the HATE for Gad ? Does he really Whine and Cry, I think all of his points have been Valid.

[/quote]



Chaos Zone is not supposed to be fair. You're always supposed to stack the odds in your favor whatever your own personal goal is. Swarming and turrets are prime examples of this. As is a flagging freq, or a hunter freq. Hunter freqs are rare nowdays from what I can tell though. There's no real competition or point, as the targets just run to safezones and stay there until the hunters leave. Their lameness has overcome the amount of time the hunters can put in. This was not always the case.



Gadianton wants to play for ratio. He does that well by today's low standards. There's not one bit of honor, and very little skill in how he does it though. He has always whined about this game being built for hunters, which it is not. But when you're the ONLY target in the zone, it will seem that way. He has made very little valid points in the past. Ever.



Jazz wants to "play" this other game where you purposefully try to bring ratio players' ratios down, or help hunters with bounties. That's fine. It's always been fine.



EDIT: PsyOps didn't say chaos should be oriented for hunters, phew. Well he did, but didn't mean to.



As for public coordinates or energy or repels, there's no way in hell any number of moderators will be able to enforce a rule with any logic that would prevent this, unless you set a strict messages per minute threshold, which kind of makes me chuckle even when I type it out. In either case, if it were ruled out I'm pretty sure Jazz would discover the wonders of "bounty at %coord macros, sent to the freq with 1-2 people who seem to be going after bounty.



Gadianton, please post the list of changes that made the game easier for hunters and I'll reject it point by point. I'm bored.

[a tool]

AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHASFHDASDFHDSHLHAFASDHFAHDSF I CANNOT FUCKING BELIEVE THIS IS A PROBLEM.





(edit)



actually, i can. gad's MASTERED the art of being the vulching turret. hunting tactics, or whatever the fuck you want to call them, have to be lowered to meet this standard. pub chat'ing coords, while can be annoying, is effective. so, shrug.



also, there is this thing called ?ignore. it's not like gad ISN'T going to run if there's more than two people on radar..

[Cheese]

?ignore a tool

[a tool]

gg.



also, this is a dead topic. lawl.

[SuG]

*shakes head*

[Capt ARGH!]

BTW,



i think it would be neat if you could see every player when viewing the entire map in ALT. this is also a more elegant solution to the problem of how to find players at low pop times than the dynamic map size thing that was used in the past .



ps who gives a crap if you call out cords?

[Axe Demento]

I have wondered this before? is there a way to have a SUPER rader Where you see all the dots on the alt map?



That would be a sweet rank reward... Like target.



Or even the ability to find one person on the alt map for a hunt.



balancing it of course for game play but i'm curious <img src='http://www.subspace.co/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



As i love when you play the KING game and it ends you get that one Purple dot remaining till then quit out.



...Axe