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04-08-2013, 06:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-08-2013, 06:02 PM by Three.)
Quote:<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Three" data-cid="287120" data-time="1365187050">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ImDigs" data-cid="287119" data-time="1365185250">He's talking about the fact that Candyman, in the past, has often subbed himself or another Requiem player that was 0/0 LL during a practice, then proceeded to change ships and say it's an allowed fullsub. That is apparently legal, despite the bot distinguishing it as an illegal ship change, but subbing in burned on a different alias after dying out is worthy of a 5 day ban two weeks after the fact.
It's quite laughable, but not really.
I see.
In that case I see nothing wrong with Candyman trying to simulate events that transpire during a match (using one full sub - completely legal in a match). What Rage was just banned for isn't allowed in a match.
I also think all lag outs should be burnt in a practice (just like a match). The idea being that there aren't enough staff members to police whether or not a player intentionally lagged themselves out to either not die or lose items. Max lag outs in practices should be set to 3 (looks at Macuto and shakes his head), just like a match. Time limit being 30 minutes instead of 45 I understand.
It seems counterintuitive to have practice rules differ from match rules when the entire purpose of practicing is to prepare for a match.... but hey, that's me.
Cheers.
</blockquote>
Lag out limit at 3 was previously set. People would just get a new alias. Thus it was removed.
And prac rules just... are different. And you should not "emulate" fullsubs, just like no one "emulates" a match lag out.
And Legacy is gone for three days for subbing in for the opposing team and suiciding out. http://www.svssubspace.com/?page=Game&id=113835&season=0
</blockquote>
Not to try and prevent something that is blatantly unfair from happening because a player might try to get around it really should not be a practice that is followed.
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Quote:<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Caerbannog" data-cid="287128" data-time="1365284138">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Three" data-cid="287120" data-time="1365187050">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ImDigs" data-cid="287119" data-time="1365185250">He's talking about the fact that Candyman, in the past, has often subbed himself or another Requiem player that was 0/0 LL during a practice, then proceeded to change ships and say it's an allowed fullsub. That is apparently legal, despite the bot distinguishing it as an illegal ship change, but subbing in burned on a different alias after dying out is worthy of a 5 day ban two weeks after the fact.
It's quite laughable, but not really.
I see.
In that case I see nothing wrong with Candyman trying to simulate events that transpire during a match (using one full sub - completely legal in a match). What Rage was just banned for isn't allowed in a match.
I also think all lag outs should be burnt in a practice (just like a match). The idea being that there aren't enough staff members to police whether or not a player intentionally lagged themselves out to either not die or lose items. Max lag outs in practices should be set to 3 (looks at Macuto and shakes his head), just like a match. Time limit being 30 minutes instead of 45 I understand.
It seems counterintuitive to have practice rules differ from match rules when the entire purpose of practicing is to prepare for a match.... but hey, that's me.
Cheers.
</blockquote>
Lag out limit at 3 was previously set. People would just get a new alias. Thus it was removed.
And prac rules just... are different. And you should not "emulate" fullsubs, just like no one "emulates" a match lag out.
And Legacy is gone for three days for subbing in for the opposing team and suiciding out. http://www.svssubspace.com/?page=Game&id=113835&season=0
</blockquote>
Not to try and prevent something that is blatantly unfair from happening because a player might try to get around it really should not be a practice that is followed.
</blockquote>
True enough. But the other part in that rule revolves around the times when there aren't people to sub the laggers. Most of the time people have the common decency to sit games out if they are constantly lagging to spec. Not only does it suck for the opponents, but it essentially makes their team play 3v4 since you can't count on a lagger.
But yeah. When the limit was 3 and 8 people were on.. things got silly.
All in all, those are all Underlord's calls. But I'm pretty much fine with them, seeing as how the other options are very strict and not based on the league being what people make of it, but a nazi utopia. Plus they all require a staff of a gazillion to enforce each others' lag outs.
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Quote:<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Three" data-cid="287156" data-time="1365444144">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Caerbannog" data-cid="287128" data-time="1365284138">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Three" data-cid="287120" data-time="1365187050">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ImDigs" data-cid="287119" data-time="1365185250">He's talking about the fact that Candyman, in the past, has often subbed himself or another Requiem player that was 0/0 LL during a practice, then proceeded to change ships and say it's an allowed fullsub. That is apparently legal, despite the bot distinguishing it as an illegal ship change, but subbing in burned on a different alias after dying out is worthy of a 5 day ban two weeks after the fact.
It's quite laughable, but not really.
I see.
In that case I see nothing wrong with Candyman trying to simulate events that transpire during a match (using one full sub - completely legal in a match). What Rage was just banned for isn't allowed in a match.
I also think all lag outs should be burnt in a practice (just like a match). The idea being that there aren't enough staff members to police whether or not a player intentionally lagged themselves out to either not die or lose items. Max lag outs in practices should be set to 3 (looks at Macuto and shakes his head), just like a match. Time limit being 30 minutes instead of 45 I understand.
It seems counterintuitive to have practice rules differ from match rules when the entire purpose of practicing is to prepare for a match.... but hey, that's me.
Cheers.
</blockquote>
Lag out limit at 3 was previously set. People would just get a new alias. Thus it was removed.
And prac rules just... are different. And you should not "emulate" fullsubs, just like no one "emulates" a match lag out.
And Legacy is gone for three days for subbing in for the opposing team and suiciding out. http://www.svssubspace.com/?page=Game&id=113835&season=0
</blockquote>
Not to try and prevent something that is blatantly unfair from happening because a player might try to get around it really should not be a practice that is followed.
</blockquote>
True enough. But the other part in that rule revolves around the times when there aren't people to sub the laggers. Most of the time people have the common decency to sit games out if they are constantly lagging to spec. Not only does it suck for the opponents, but it essentially makes their team play 3v4 since you can't count on a lagger.
But yeah. When the limit was 3 and 8 people were on.. things got silly.
All in all, those are all Underlord's calls. But I'm pretty much fine with them, seeing as how the other options are very strict and not based on the league being what people make of it, but a nazi utopia. Plus they all require a staff of a gazillion to enforce each others' lag outs.
</blockquote>
The times when there aren't people to sub the laggers... most of the time people have the common decency to wait until you can get a 4th with the !spam command....
Teams that have the lagger also get the advantage of having a guy yoga teleport all over the screen while the other team wastes items that they don't get back on that lagger (then the lagger subs back in, with items). This is a more common occurrence then not being able to field a team because of a lagger. That is the main reason the !spam command exists. To get a sub.
Underlord's calls? I respect Underlord for whatever coding work he did for the bots and the site... however... I along with many others are questioning the calls of a college dropout that implemented 20 thrust sharks and juiced up terriers. "His" rules aren't infallible. He is fallible just like you and me. For league betterment you need to have some discernment and objectivity. Get past the personal shit, listen to those who are trying to help make the game better, and implement changes where they are needed. If you need coding help just fucking ask. If you need staff help, ask.
How is requiring someone fix their connection a "Nazi utopia"? There is only one person who is acting like a Nazi here. Not being open to changing rules because you're content with rules set in place years ago IS a "Nazi move". Suggestions made, specifically ones put together with reason (not a mirror's), are shot down or insulted. How is that productive? What value are you adding in your position if you aren't constructively and actively trying to improve league?
And no, I don't want your "job".
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I'm not quite sure why this was glanced over so quickly.... but the monopolizing of an arena, and forcecapping over, and over, and over..... is ridiculous. And that wouldn't even be that big a problem, if the stupid line didn't get fixed every time. I watched partsi get cap 7 times in a row last night, and every time it got forced to or from monkk's dumb team. I get not wanting Partsi in, but does it have to put him back infront every time so the same thing happens every time? The best part is it happens late, so once these ass holes are done, the arena is dead.
In summary: Nuke is gay.
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Quote:I'm not quite sure why this was glanced over so quickly.... but the monopolizing of an arena, and forcecapping over, and over, and over..... is ridiculous. And that wouldn't even be that big a problem, if the stupid line didn't get fixed every time. I watched partsi get cap 7 times in a row last night, and every time it got forced to or from monkk's dumb team. I get not wanting Partsi in, but does it have to put him back infront every time so the same thing happens every time? The best part is it happens late, so once these ass holes are done, the arena is dead.
In summary: Nuke is gay.
Correct solution, convince 8 people from spec to get a new arena rather than wait in line for a shot vs. the guys who have been monopolizing an arena =(
Forcecap wasn't always there.... lead to arena skipping and captains stuck on players, who have just claimed it and seen the opposing freq go for a rematch with random people in a new arena, going afk. Was very poopy.
"Requiring someone to fix their connection" is just what I mean by nazi utopia. How in the hell would anyone judge this consistently? You would have to know what the normal connection for each player is before you could even hazard a guess as to whether or not they could do better, and as such just might be downloading something. We have plenty of lagged people, or people who have been downloading since 98 arond.
And true, while some (like elmo) might suggest that Sika has a worse connection than some other Finns.... I don't think we can really force people to try a different ISP or physically move to a new place, in hopes of being allowed in a space ship. (I changed ISPs for SS reasons, though. Was fun. Now I can play and browse the intertubes regardless of hopone.net's NY routers)
Plus you would, after making 90% of the zone staff, end up with staff members regulating each other. Anything less than 90% or so, and the people just would not be around to do anything. It's all much more peaceful if the robot without much of a personality makes these calls. People just have to adhere to them... which they don't =(
I actually failed in this myself the other day. I was the captain of a glorious prac team and failed to boot a lagger after a win. So he lagged the following prac too, making it a 4v3 for us.
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Solution to those issues:
If the player doesn't respond to the bot every 15 minutes, the captain is removed and first offered to other people on the frequency, then to those next in line (if they're online). There can be check points added to make sure captains are kept active or cycled through to the next person.
Sometimes at night there aren't 8 other people. There might only be 3 from a squad and 1 more, and they are shit out of luck because of forcecap. Forcecap was added to allow for squad practices, that's why it was only put into squad arenas. Now it's just become a mockery. There are literally two squads that monopolize the arena after 10:30pm central time and they aren't always practicing other squads.
That's not good. It needs to be fixed. Finding excuses or loopholes doesn't address the issue. If people want to be so anal that they are switching arenas every single practice to keep playing the same people, so be it. They're the ones that are going out of their way to do it, not the people patiently waiting in spec. You're punishing the people that want to play because you seemingly do not want to change the set up.
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And another thing, you're talking about very relaxed lag limits with laggers. Obviously people are talking about the issues that are seen when Macuto is lagging to spec 15 times in a game and never burning items. There should be a limit, like league. Perhaps not spec locking the person forcing them to get a sub, but after 5 lag outs they need to have their items removed for no other reason than it being an unfair advantage (and that's not counting the lost items burned on them because of their lag, like having to rep after pb bombing yourself because of a skip).
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Quote:Solution to those issues:
If the player doesn't respond to the bot every 15 minutes, the captain is removed and first offered to other people on the frequency, then to those next in line (if they're online). There can be check points added to make sure captains are kept active or cycled through to the next person.
Sometimes at night there aren't 8 other people. There might only be 3 from a squad and 1 more, and they are shit out of luck because of forcecap. Forcecap was added to allow for squad practices, that's why it was only put into squad arenas. Now it's just become a mockery. There are literally two squads that monopolize the arena after 10:30pm central time and they aren't always practicing other squads.
That's not good. It needs to be fixed. Finding excuses or loopholes doesn't address the issue. If people want to be so anal that they are switching arenas every single practice to keep playing the same people, so be it. They're the ones that are going out of their way to do it, not the people patiently waiting in spec. You're punishing the people that want to play because you seemingly do not want to change the set up.
This.
And I'm whooping your ass this week in FBB.
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Quote:And another thing, you're talking about very relaxed lag limits with laggers. Obviously people are talking about the issues that are seen when Macuto is lagging to spec 15 times in a game and never burning items. There should be a limit, like league. Perhaps not spec locking the person forcing them to get a sub, but after 5 lag outs they need to have their items removed for no other reason than it being an unfair advantage (and that's not counting the lost items burned on them because of their lag, like having to rep after pb bombing yourself because of a skip).
Bingo.
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Quote:And another thing, you're talking about very relaxed lag limits with laggers. Obviously people are talking about the issues that are seen when Macuto is lagging to spec 15 times in a game and never burning items. There should be a limit, like league. Perhaps not spec locking the person forcing them to get a sub, but after 5 lag outs they need to have their items removed for no other reason than it being an unfair advantage (and that's not counting the lost items burned on them because of their lag, like having to rep after pb bombing yourself because of a skip).
A thought. Maybe we make it so if you lagout you are burnt of items unless you have died within the last minute or within the first minute of the game. So when you reenter it acts like you just Ship Changed, but haven't actually changed ships. Then we could add like a max of 5 to 6 lagouts per game then they are locked out. I think this would be fair. I think if a person lags out 5 to 6 times they should not reenter unless they've fixed the problem.
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Rage still abusing pracarenas:
<div>Candyman has 15 seconds to claim their captain spot.</div>
<div>DZ-4v4-Bot> Type !claim to take your captain spot.</div>
<div> Candyman> !claim</div>
<div>Candyman is the new captain for freq 100</div>
<div> Candyman> .sub 100</div>
<div>1:Candyman> 100</div>
<div> Rage> candyman</div>
<div> gik> this is how rage gets people to think hes great - he plays on a stacked team and does well</div>
<div> Rage> duel street fighter</div>
<div> Brave> wtf</div>
<div> Candyman> 100</div>
<div> gik> then does mediocre in matches</div>
<div> Greg> need?</div>
<div> Brave> hi</div>
<div> Candyman> .kick brave</div>
<div>DZ-4v4-Bot> Brave has been kicked from your team.</div>
<div> Rage> are u going to duel street fighter</div>
<div> Rage> candyman</div>
<div> Brave> no</div>
<div> Rage> yes/no</div>
<div> Brave> rage</div>
<div> Sabrewolf> me and savage</div>
<div> Rage> candyman 10 seconds</div>
<div> Rage> to answer this question</div>
<div>1:Candyman> plut get in</div>
<div> Rage> fair enough</div>
<div> Candyman> im here to play 4on4</div>
<div> Candyman> not 1on1</div>
<div> Rage> !forcecap brave</div>
<div>DZ-4v4-Bot> You are no longer captain and now moved to next in line. The winning captain has used !forcecap</div>
<div>Brave is the new captain for Freq 100</div>
<div> Rage> ban him brave</div>
<div> Brave> .unban brave</div>
<div> Brave> .sub</div>
<div> Brave> .sub 100</div>
<div> Candyman> are you retarded rage?</div>
<div> Rage> !givecap ivf</div>
<div>ivf is the new captain for Freq 200</div>
<div> Brave> .kick candyman</div>
<div>DZ-4v4-Bot> Brave has kicked you from their team.</div>
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2  arkDenizen> L10
2:pez> nice
2 arkDenizen> he just suicided out
Rage> made awful guy get so pissed
2:pez> i bet that's like -55
Rage> hahahah
pez> .stats
Rage> sorry i targeted you awful guy
Sabrewolf> .restart
2:pez> oh man nailed it
Rage> so u couldnt even move
Rage> .  ((
2:pez> dont restart
2:pez> kid dies out fast in hopes you restart
2 arkDenizen> wtf...you guessed -55?
2 arkDenizen> huge
Brave> .restart
Rage> ill end it
Rage> and give u cap
Rage> brave
Brave> ok
Rage> !end
Freq 200 has requested to end the game. Game will end when both teams agree to end.
Brave> .end
Candyman> so you can play an uneven prac again
Rage> candyman
Candyman> instead of letting me get my turn
Brave> candy
gik> yes rage your skills are outstanding with these teams
Sabrewolf has changed to spectator mode. [Lagouts: 1]
Brave> i will let u play
Rage> i just rocked a try hard moron without firing at anyone else
gik> im impressed
Brave> no worries
Woo woo
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How did he abuse? Was this not done in a 4v4squad arena? Caer himself has not denied that the "correct solution" would be to get people to switch arenas.
Which wouldn't happen.
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