The discussion thread for things

[Menteroth]

(06-03-2018, 05:04 PM)Caerbannog Wrote:  9. Menteroth, I don't feel like CFK's post was very helpful. Regardless of his high opinion of me, he should probably not instantly attempt to undermine a thread with "too little too late lololo"? He's about as negative of a force as you can find.

Perhaps. But as an admin you're not supposed to stoop to the their level. Handle it in a better manner. That's how I feel at least.
It's been a long time now, that I have met ragers in games and turned the conversation for the better, when just talking in a calm, not edgy, way and not being condescending to other people instead of doing it the easy way talking back/shit. You'd be surprised how many times that works and you can actually have a normal conversation.

And as I said earlier. I have been away from Subspace for a long time so I don't really know where all this is coming from with the whole community. But talking like this, from any side doesn't really help and seeing an admin behave like this is kind of awkward in my opinion. Not here to try and start anything. I have no beef with you. Just want to hand in my opinion of how the attitude here is, with everyone. Which is quite sad to see. None of us are teenagers anymore.

I hope the community and the admins can get along somehow and come to a conclusion with a proper proposal of what things need to change.

Cheers.

Edit: I am talking about communities in general, anywhere, that such behaviour should not even exist. Just to make that clear. Should be a good tone when discussing things and not talk shit is my whole point. Whoever it is.
Should have a meeting sometime and discuss what you all need to say. I don't even know. Just going to leave this here. I was just kinda surprised of the general behaviour.

[Three]

(06-03-2018, 05:04 PM)Caerbannog Wrote:  Right, right.
1. Any change in the zone is beyond what I do. I'm not at all up to date on how SSC limits copying other zones' settings or leagues. All I can say is I agree the server randomly locking players out is an issue.

2. Ship settings have been tried. Some of them were forum based suggestions, most of the current nerfs are ones I put there without too much input? Like they were ideas that had been thrown out here and there. That is reverting the terrier and leviathan changes Underlord made, increasing multi-bullet cost (except terrier), lowering x-radar drain (spiders were at a point where they were a must have everywhere, which slowed games down, which people didn't like). Javelin was _too_ fast (50 off rocket speed), Javelin then had a confusing thrust mechanic. The shark never really had an identity, atm is a nerfed version of the pub shark. And I don't even think it's necessarily a bad ship (besides the graphic) it just takes a lot more effort than most other ships.

The only ideas I've tossed right away are ones that stray too far from SVS.

3. Bot development / prac queues etc. See, no one is also opposed to these ideas. It's just that you'd have to present them in a VERY refined form so that it doesn't take hallucination a week to implement for everyone to tell him it's shit. Which is more than likely to happen when you thought your queue system would somehow dodge landing you in there with secede and el poopie. Which, by the way, it won't. Then you'll F11 and... then what?

4. The sad loss of cash flow king. Man that's a tough one. You won't log in to subspace to _not_ play the game? Darn. If ever there were people who server no purpose except to piss off the rest of the population, cfk would fit right in.

5. The Coucil, ah yes, the one I pushed to set up so I could just chill Please do reinstate that. Except the council ground rules have to then be revisited and agreed upon. I tried to set it up in a way where I was never supposed to hold the councils hand, cause that'd just be more work for me.

6. Creating a toxic environment? That's all on me? Everyone hating on Pivotal or Candyman when they're not suiciding in pracs? For the past 20 years? That's all me? Nice. Never did I ever imagine my charisma is enough to get everyone to act in a way they deem is a) immature and b) toxic? People usually only attempt to copy the good ideas and features, I suppose my excellence is too much though. The ozn threat thing lead to a ban, so uhh.. what? See, everyone has a different view of what is ok and what isn't. Develop for one was all for lifting that badn cause "we're all adults and don't need people to hold our hands". Personally, I suggest using ?ignore or ignore.txt a lot.

7. Nismo you managed to kill a 400 player zone, while you were the sysop? Thumbs up mate. Got any tips?

8. New players not wanting to enter chaos due to sysops? Come on there, random alias. There's no chance new players even know who the sysops are. Now this would be where our rather elitist 4v4 community comes in. If there ever was a new player they'd a) be called secede within a minute b) be kicked out of everything and c) with the very few pracs anyone gets, I fully understand why.

9. Menteroth, I don't feel like CFK's post was very helpful. Regardless of his high opinion of me, he should probably not instantly attempt to undermine a thread with "too little too late lololo"? He's about as negative of a force as you can find.

10. As stated before, most of you are working with limited information. Am I going to resign and leave the league without a sysop or a council to operate it because everyone acts like 5 year olds? Nah.

11. Rage can't bring Sterling (well, Seismic) back regardless of leadership (unless leadership changes match times) since people (Seismic) have families they need to attend to. Source: Seismic.

2. Referring to the "incident" with the Javelin, You didn't "toss them". You acted like a complete asshole in-game after having a decent discussion on the pro forum. I think the starting point was the old settings I mentioned, we made suggestions, and wanted to try them. You literally as I said, after matches on a Sunday, announced to the entire zone in green, let's go test these shitty settings, or something along those lines. Now the Javelin is actually somewhat use-able after the shift-thrust option was taken out, because we started the discussion. I believe thrust was increased to 18, from 17, no afterburner.

Side note - the shark did have an identity, season 7. One of the changes that should have been made a long time ago after Underlord's 20 thrust sharks were removed. 1750 nrg, 18 thrust, around 270 or 280 rotation, cloak, perhaps no stealth I forget off the top of my head.

I'm not talking shit, this happened. Here is some of the history on the Javelin incident: http://forum.svssubspace.com/showthread.php?tid=1460

So did the awarding of a death and banning of Ozn and nearly costing my team a semi-finals game because he "cheated", which couldn't be further from the truth. Forum links can be provided for the entire saga I'm just too lazy to scroll through 35 pages to find it unless someone really wants to read through that crap again.

And the updating of current league teams on the pro website, that happened, old teams hadn't been removed, a good number of them. The racism, that isn't even debatable.

To menteroth's point, he's absolutely right. I'm as guilty if not more guilty than most for talking trash, and acting like a child. We all have our own demons we deal with and we use this game as an outlet to let steam off, have some fun, etc.. That doesn't excuse how immature a lot of us have been, including myself, but it does add context. I own it, I agree I have acted immaturely, impatiently, I agree with you. I fire back when I shouldn't, I have posted rants on the forum, some warranted, others, not. Most of that stems from my frustration that nothing is being done to promote and grow the league, and the league operators indifference towards the populations frustrations, or to the longevity of this league, or for basic human decency (his use of racial slurs).

The situation has been pretty dire the past few seasons, leagues now nearly dead. When people who are passionate about keeping the league alive and growing see nothing being done by the sysop, or the zone moderator or whatever you call hallucination, for years, and years, and Caerbannog acting like he does as the league head, logical discussions are thrown out the window and you can expect the vitriol.

The question remains, what are you, Caerbannog, and you, hallucination, doing to grow this zone, and more importantly, this league? Have you joined discord, are you involved in any events planning for the near future, have you reached out to other zone mods for ideas, help with bot coding, perhaps merging with other zones that have the capability of replay (like powerball did), who have more advanced server capabilities? We would love to hear what the plan(s) are... How can we help if you are working on project(s) the "public" aren't privy to?

None of what I said in this post was shit talk, or in any way untrue. I think Menteroth has done a TON for the pro population by posting like 2 posts, and firing up discord. Why can't he (if he wants) be more involved on the pro staff? It seems to me like he cares.

[Caerbannog]

Not updating the rosters was intended so current captains have some idea about who might even be available.

Ozn ban wasn't referenced -- the ban where a secret alias threatened Ozn was. However, when you end up using more than the three intended lives in a game, there should be some sort of consequence. Now you might call bias here, but that means you're forgetting the time I banned Benji when he was on my squad. That was when he somehow ended up with about 40% ploss and took down about three assassins alone

As to Menteroth's point, CFK is just a negative troll. No human has the time to allocate to everyone AND the trolls. I've been playing a game of 1v50 here, in which some people focus on PUNCTUATION.

And no, I have not joined Discord. Why? Cause anywhere I go, people assume I'm up to talk "official league stuff". Also surely you wouldn't want my toxicity in there too?

But fear not!

[Three]

(06-04-2018, 07:21 PM)Caerbannog Wrote:  Not updating the rosters was intended so current captains have some idea about who might even be available.

Ozn ban wasn't referenced -- the ban where a secret alias threatened Ozn was. However, when you end up using more than the three intended lives in a game, there should be some sort of consequence. Now you might call bias here, but that means you're forgetting the time I banned Benji when he was on my squad. That was when he somehow ended up with about 40% ploss and took down about three assassins alone

As to Menteroth's point, CFK is just a negative troll. No human has the time to allocate to everyone AND the trolls. I've been playing a game of 1v50 here, in which some people focus on PUNCTUATION.

And no, I have not joined Discord. Why? Cause anywhere I go, people assume I'm up to talk "official league stuff". Also surely you wouldn't want my toxicity in there too?

But fear not!

So keeping rosters on the pro website for teams not in pro was your goal. I think most would agree, terrible idea.

Ozn had a double death, as was discussed before, it is/was a bot glitch where you die, you reappear right where you died, with little to no energy. Again, he didn't attach. Fact. Not sure you can have more than 5% ploss and be allowed in a match but ok, not sure where that statement came from. I could claim bias but I'm not trying to shit talk you. There has been enough of that.

I think CFK is just as frustrated as most of us, again logical discussions really don't happen with you as even now you're throwing out sarcastic smiley faces to things that aren't true and aren't addressing questions regarding the growth of this league and what you're doing for the community seeing as how you're the figure head and "run" it. Punctuation can imply or change the meaning of a sentence, the posting of the finals scheduling was extremely confusing... not really a debate there so I agree?.. Well 1v50 should send you a message that something is extremely wrong here. How you don't get that..

So basically you're doing nothing to help grow the league and stay in touch with the population? Why are you sticking around and not stepping down? What value are you adding here?

[cash flow king]

(06-04-2018, 07:21 PM)Caerbannog Wrote:  Not updating the rosters was intended so current captains have some idea about who might even be available.

Ozn ban wasn't referenced -- the ban where a secret alias threatened Ozn was. However, when you end up using more than the three intended lives in a game, there should be some sort of consequence. Now you might call bias here, but that means you're forgetting the time I banned Benji when he was on my squad. That was when he somehow ended up with about 40% ploss and took down about three assassins alone

As to Menteroth's point, CFK is just a negative troll. No human has the time to allocate to everyone AND the trolls. I've been playing a game of 1v50 here, in which some people focus on PUNCTUATION.

And no, I have not joined Discord. Why? Cause anywhere I go, people assume I'm up to talk "official league stuff". Also surely you wouldn't want my toxicity in there too?

But fear not!

As you continue to hurl personal insults, I will continue to defend myself. You misquoted me and completely changed the context when you added your own "LOLOL" to my comment. My comment was intended to be taken seriously, and by you adding "LOLOL" to my comment you changed the context of it. By doing that, you would be the person "trolling". If you think adding "LOLOL" and attributing that to persons "quoted response" is punctuation I don't know what to tell you. Otherwise, nothing I have said in this thread or any other has been any kind of "trolling". Please stop making personal attacks and address the important questions and posts in these threads.

[Menteroth]

(06-04-2018, 07:21 PM)Caerbannog Wrote:  As to Menteroth's point, CFK is just a negative troll. No human has the time to allocate to everyone AND the trolls. I've been playing a game of 1v50 here, in which some people focus on PUNCTUATION.

I wasn't trying to point fingers. I meant the whole community as a whole and any community for that matter. Was only trying to make a point, not blame anyone for making what the community is today. Would be nice if everyone just became the "better person" instead of a onesided thing. I still think after all that has happened if both "sides" are willing to at least try and collaborate something for Pro League that it will work. Whatever it'd be.

Some has been talking about writing up a proper proposal of what they think needs to change for the better. I think Peeking Duck? and some were talking about it?
Please correct me so we can at least try and get somewhere with and see where it leads. Like a proper list of things/dos or whatever. Heck if I know.
Maybe you Caerbannog can make a thread for this and add some guidelines of what you want to see in there so you don't get some loose shenanigans that will never work.

How does that sound? Just an idea and you can add whatever to that idea as you like. I am just trying here since my absence from Subspace doesn't really help going deeper into it. But that's fine with me.

(06-04-2018, 07:21 PM)Caerbannog Wrote:  And no, I have not joined Discord. Why? Cause anywhere I go, people assume I'm up to talk "official league stuff". Also surely you wouldn't want my toxicity in there too?

I know you told me, when I asked you to join because it'd be nice if you were there as well, that you had a lot of people talking back to you and whatnot.
I think that if you do join that everyone would at least try to make it work, because you finally joined. I see that as a step forward, even though it's "just" a Discord server.

I also understand that you might not what to talk about Subspace things everywhere you go. But I created the server because it's easier to talk in real-time instead of having to refresh threads on a forum now and then hoping to see if someone answered/posted anything. Especially for pracs. People don't need to login and can use their phone and setup pracs in advance on their way home. It's perfect. Will of course not force you to join the server, but at least think about it.

People will have disagreements in things, that's bound to happen. Just the way it is. Doesn't mean it has to come to namecalling and racial slurs, from anyone involved.

All I am trying here is to make a connection and boost the whole community to not give up and meet half way, in some way.
Bury the hatchet. Everyone here is a grownup.

[ivf]

The next step is not just for chaos zone but for continuum. System ops from all zones need to work together and create one zone and call it SSCU SUBSPACE.

hallucination, qan and FC need to hold these talks and get it moving.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

[Three]

(06-04-2018, 08:12 PM)ivf Wrote:  The next step is not just for chaos zone but for continuum. System ops from all zones need to work together and create one zone and call it SSCU SUBSPACE.

hallucination, qan and FC need to hold these talks and get it moving.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

Agreed.

[SK+]

(06-03-2018, 06:04 PM)Lone Outlaw Wrote:  I'm Falconeer in game, I come from DSB which has much of the same problems with 2 sysops who can't get any dev work done for varying reasons. Some of your players came from DSB to escape this problem only to find it here.

I'm known as being opinionated/outspoken, brusque with my words, pretty direct etc. So from what i gather caer's way of responding although not typical of an admin in power representing a community.. is not really a big problem for me. People can be as rude as they want, talk shit etc. the issue would be is he actually doing anything or just calling people names when a bunch of them said "hey this needs to be reviewed/changed"?

If there are ideas to fix/improve the zone/league, and a consensus on those ideas, and if in fact some of those ideas are obvious no brainers, and no one has done anything to implement those ideas in many months? years? then that's the real root of the problem. And part of the issue, part of the reason that happens is when you have only two staffers, and a bunch of motivated people who would work for hours being obstructed instead of being respected. A good admin finds motivated people and uses their energy and talent to help everyone imo.

Hey Falc, what's up?

I disagree with you on that because if I have a discussion with a league sysop, in this case Caerbannog, asking him to try changing ships settings because nobody uses them and suggest some things only to be replied "that sucks" or "it wouldn't work" with not much explanation... so in this case, him being rude was the core issue... I saw that there is nobody to talk to. Anyway, there is someone else taking care of things it seems which is nice to see Chaos zone is not repeating DSB's mistakes.

[7th]

(06-04-2018, 08:12 PM)ivf Wrote:  The next step is not just for chaos zone but for continuum. System ops from all zones need to work together and create one zone and call it SSCU SUBSPACE.

hallucination, qan and FC need to hold these talks and get it moving.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

This would be sweet.  Set up with like 4 or 5 public zones that maybe you could have a bot auto put you in one you choose.  Like have TW, EG, Hockey Zone, Powerball, and Chaos as the 5 public zones.  There could be a default one obviously.  

Then have the various leagues running.  

[psyanide]

(06-11-2018, 06:43 PM)7th Wrote:  

(06-04-2018, 08:12 PM)ivf Wrote:  The next step is not just for chaos zone but for continuum. System ops from all zones need to work together and create one zone and call it SSCU SUBSPACE.

hallucination, qan and FC need to hold these talks and get it moving.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

This would be sweet.  Set up with like 4 or 5 public zones that maybe you could have a bot auto put you in one you choose.  Like have TW, EG, Hockey Zone, Powerball, and Chaos as the 5 public zones.  There could be a default one obviously.  

Then have the various leagues running.  

agree with all of this