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Forcecap
#1
I'm "newer" to 4v4 although I have spent a pretty decent amount of time trying to learn and improve. I've affiliated myself with some players and I was considering joining Dropship when the rules will allow it (I'm flying their banner). I go into the arena and I sit and i wait until my cap comes up. I have players form Dropship along with others who are willing to play on my freq. I start to invite them in and the cap from the other freq forcecaps another player and I am left to watch some more. I wait on another cap and when I get it, I say "do it again" in an obviously sarcastic fashion and as I am typing that, I am forcecapped out again. If you guys can think of a better way to ensure that new guys will never play 4v4 I'd like to know it. I don't have time to sit and WATCH people play subspace. I understand that there are some logistical reasons to leave forcecap as a command but you have to make it a bannable offense to abuse that command. It isn't hard. The abuse is simple to see and it should be bannable. I'm giving 4v4 about another month to see if this is dealt with. If not, I'm not going to keep coming in. If the game can't be civil enough to even allow people to wait in line and play then it's not a game for me. Little kids on a playground can manage to abide by simple rules of play. I won't be associated with grown adults who can't.

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#2
Quote:<div>
I'm "newer" to 4v4 although I have spent a pretty decent amount of time trying to learn and improve. I've affiliated myself with some players and I was considering joining Dropship when the rules will allow it (I'm flying their banner). I go into the arena and I sit and i wait until my cap comes up. I have players form Dropship along with others who are willing to play on my freq. I start to invite them in and the cap from the other freq forcecaps another player and I am left to watch some more. I wait on another cap and when I get it, I say "do it again" in an obviously sarcastic fashion and as I am typing that, I am forcecapped out again. If you guys can think of a better way to ensure that new guys will never play 4v4 I'd like to know it. I don't have time to sit and WATCH people play subspace. I understand that there are some logistical reasons to leave forcecap as a command but you have to make it a bannable offense to abuse that command. It isn't hard. The abuse is simple to see and it should be bannable. I'm giving 4v4 about another month to see if this is dealt with. If not, I'm not going to keep coming in. If the game can't be civil enough to even allow people to wait in line and play then it's not a game for me. Little kids on a playground can manage to abide by simple rules of play. I won't be associated with grown adults who can't.

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<p style="margin:0in;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Rules of any squad arena are the winning team gets to force cap to whomever they choose. This was vetted and decided as the best option years ago as we evolved from everyone spamming !cap to get cap randomly or sitting in a captain queue 56 people long, half not even around. I force capped it I believe a total of three times (two for spite because you and Nude for Satan were running your mouths). By the way geniuses, what rule was I breaking force capping away from an AML player in what I would consider a PRO arena? You're not even rostered on a squad and you had no idea who you were playing against. Learn the rules.</span>


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">I was actually going to let you keep your captainship (you are put #1 in line when cap is forced away from you btw) after the first practice ended, but you private messaged me running your mouth, telling me to eat a dick, asshole, etc. etc. and you said go ahead and force cap again, so I did. If you want civility in a video game you're looking in the wrong place - but don't be a hypocrite playing all innocent after you tell me to pretty much fuck off in private after force capping something away from you once. If you had kept your mouth shut you probably would have played a practice later. You're woefully out of your depth just starting out in 4v4. Learn the rules and stop being a petulant child, you'll get better, you'll keep your captainship, and you'll get picked to play.</span>


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">I understand you need to play to get better. That's a YOU problem. Everyone who is "good" at this game played for thousands upon thousands of hours, sitting in spec, getting kicked to spec because they weren't good enough, albeit with a bigger player base but its the same process. You're the new kid on the block, get used to being treated as such.</span>

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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">I won't apologize for wanting to play a semi-decent team for real practice. I, like you, don't have much time to play this game and when I do I don't want to play people that are "newer" when I'm rusty.</span>


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">I sat there for 15 minutes spamming and messaging people to get a single practice started as it was dead prior to the first practice even kicking off.</span>


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Start a practice on your own next time in a practice arena, not a squad arena, where force cap isn't allowed and stop bitching. </span>


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Welcome to Pro League.</span>

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#3
Ok. Fuck you and goodbye.

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#4
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Ok. Fuck you and goodbye.

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No mental fortitude. Bye internet friend.

 

ALL DAY SON
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#5
Agreed with 3.  The whole point of squad arenas is to be able to forcecap.  If you want to avoid that, play in a prac arena.

 

We all had to go through the not getting picked and having to prove ourselves and watching 90% of pracs instead of playing.  Thems the breaks for new guys, unfortunately.  Builds character.

 

Unfortunately there's no 'forcecap' to avoid paying your newbie dues in 4v4.  Your best bet is to get friendly with as many people as you can and they'll starting picking you and help you improve.  Too bad you posted this bitchy whine-fest in public, now everyone knows what kind of guy you are, Mr. B-Hole.  Shot yourself in the foot pretty soundly with this thread.

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#6
There's no rules. There should be rules. They don't even have to be all that elaborate. But they would need moderation.

I see two instances where !forcecap is viable and legitimate:

1. the team wanting the .cap is a squad (raises the question of whether they can use aliases as who's around to help prove they are a squad)

2. the captain to lose .cap is in some manner acting in a way that is detrimental to the health of the arena (afk, refusing everyone while plenty are willing, etc)

Other than this !forcecap should be considered illegal.

 

There aren't 400 players coming through the arena doors every day anymore, or whatever it was when it was hecta'.

 

"<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Start a practice on your own next time in a practice arena, not a squad arena, where force cap isn't allowed and stop bitching. " is just no longer a viable option except on rare instances. Game day is a good exception. Other than these exceptions there are commonly less than 16 available players</span>, (probably less than 14 before someone suggests 3v3 arena). It's a good suggestion if there's plenty of people about. People apparently have waited in line and been denied pracs for years ... but there hasn't always been only one arena on offer.

 

I think three was heavyhanded and overall incorrect with using !fc at this time. Sounds like Mr. B-Hole was a bit meaty with the messaging thereafter, though, and ingratiating himself with Three didn't help his cause. Though if Three would have offered his reasons to him in a different manner he might have got less of that feedback. Three was not on a 1-squad freq, and he forcecapped from one unrostered player to another unrostered player.

 

I can't play worth a damn and don't believe I ever really will. The game's fun but not a stepping stone to personal glory for me. I'll forever hope to be handy to make up 8 when there's only 7 and people just want to start a prac, but I tend to stay out of most pracs except helping out Dropships when they need the extra 1. If invited, sure, I'll probably play if available. No reason I can't start or take part in dialogue, though. Turn your mouth in my direction and of course I will respond. Forcecapping to me (while I was in spec just arguing the issue) to prove a point was kindah ridiculous.

 

Overall, even if it's to legislate the opposite of my stance, make some rules. Either way, just make them. Set some boundaries. It's not just a couple people feeling that !forcecap should be confined to squad freqs or resolving a stalled arena. There's two camps.

 

I hope to see Mr. B-Hole return and prac on. He hasn't had much of a go and, unlike me, actually shows promise if he can get the "team game" element down pat. I can understand his frustration.

 

This is a bad week for lower tier players (all players actually): everyone's off watching the world cup and numbers are down - this specifically accentuates the issue of getting a game if your lips aren't firmly attached to some l33t player's cock.

 

Oh, psyanide: getting beat up in a game can build character. Sitting in spec watching your .cap's go by does not.

One of the three most dangerous people in Subspace.
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#7
not familiar with the old nugget: "patience is a virtue" ?

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#8
Quote:<div>
There's no rules. There should be rules. They don't even have to be all that elaborate. But they would need moderation.

I see two instances where !forcecap is viable and legitimate:

1. the team wanting the .cap is a squad (raises the question of whether they can use aliases as who's around to help prove they are a squad)

2. the captain to lose .cap is in some manner acting in a way that is detrimental to the health of the arena (afk, refusing everyone while plenty are willing, etc)

Other than this !forcecap should be considered illegal.

 

There aren't 400 players coming through the arena doors every day anymore, or whatever it was when it was hecta'.

 

"<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Start a practice on your own next time in a practice arena, not a squad arena, where force cap isn't allowed and stop bitching. " is just no longer a viable option except on rare instances. Game day is a good exception. Other than these exceptions there are commonly less than 16 available players</span>, (probably less than 14 before someone suggests 3v3 arena). It's a good suggestion if there's plenty of people about. People apparently have waited in line and been denied pracs for years ... but there hasn't always been only one arena on offer.

 

I think three was heavyhanded and overall incorrect with using !fc at this time. Sounds like Mr. B-Hole was a bit meaty with the messaging thereafter, though, and ingratiating himself with Three didn't help his cause. Though if Three would have offered his reasons to him in a different manner he might have got less of that feedback. Three was not on a 1-squad freq, and he forcecapped from one unrostered player to another unrostered player.

 

I can't play worth a damn and don't believe I ever really will. The game's fun but not a stepping stone to personal glory for me. I'll forever hope to be handy to make up 8 when there's only 7 and people just want to start a prac, but I tend to stay out of most pracs except helping out Dropships when they need the extra 1. If invited, sure, I'll probably play if available. No reason I can't start or take part in dialogue, though. Turn your mouth in my direction and of course I will respond. Forcecapping to me (while I was in spec just arguing the issue) to prove a point was kindah ridiculous.

 

Overall, even if it's to legislate the opposite of my stance, make some rules. Either way, just make them. Set some boundaries. It's not just a couple people feeling that !forcecap should be confined to squad freqs or resolving a stalled arena. There's two camps.

 

I hope to see Mr. B-Hole return and prac on. He hasn't had much of a go and, unlike me, actually shows promise if he can get the "team game" element down pat. I can understand his frustration.

 

This is a bad week for lower tier players (all players actually): everyone's off watching the world cup and numbers are down - this specifically accentuates the issue of getting a game if your lips aren't firmly attached to some l33t player's cock.

 

Oh, psyanide: getting beat up in a game can build character. Sitting in spec watching your .cap's go by does not.

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Yeah I read half of that.

 

<span style="font-size:10.5pt;">I don't have to explain myself to someone named Mr. B-Hole running his mouth because he didn't get his way. I honestly couldn't care less whether or not he quits. He wouldn't last a week in league now, and he wouldn't last 3 days back when this game was alive... 
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;">I am rostered, as the Captain of the currently ranked #1 team in league. Where you two numbnuts fucked up is you had no idea who I was as I wanted to practice aliased. Would you have freaked out had you known it was me, if it was develop, Nacre, etc.? I highly doubt it. You would have sat there and understood it's a squad arena. 
</span>

 

<span style="font-size:10.5pt;">The guy’s name is Mr. fucking bhole. How mature is that? This isn't 1996 anymore... Nut up, grow some spine.
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;">And quite frankly, the day that THIS: DZ-4v4-Bot> 'nude for Satan’ Rating: 336, ERating: 480, Wins-Losses: 12-42, Kills/Deaths: 60/138, DZ-4v4-Bot> 'Mr. b-hole’ Rating: 602, ERating: 724, Wins-Losses: 12-35, Kills/Deaths: 69/97, dictates policy or rules in league, is the day I quit this game.
</span>

 

<span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Get better, add some value, and stop wasting people’s time.
</span>

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#9
Quote:<div>
not familiar with the old nugget: "patience is a virtue" ?

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Absolutely. I'm reading Three's posts in their entirety.

 

Quote:<div>
 

.<span style="font-size:10.5pt;">I am rostered, as the Captain of the currently ranked #1 team in league. Where you two numbnuts fucked up is you had no idea who I was as I wanted to practice aliased. Would you have freaked out had you known it was me, if it was develop, Nacre, etc.? I highly doubt it. You would have sat there and understood it's a squad arena.
</span>

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Of course anyone should be challenged when forcecapping from one unrostered player to another unrostered player while neither side is putting a squad on the table. I'd expect you've been in #1 league teams many times, probably captained a few, I dunno. Couldn't give a fuck tbh - if I disagree with you I'm not gonna stfu because of your 2d spaceship game successes, or because you scream baseless abuse at me. In fact with that sort of "pedigree" rofl or whatever you call it, you should know better. Your pewpew skills - huge respect. Your attitude to a fledgling player and the health of the game - not much respect at all.


Kind of overestimating your powers of subterfuge there, btw.
One of the three most dangerous people in Subspace.
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#10
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="psyanide" data-cid="291035" data-time="1402806545">
<div>
not familiar with the old nugget: "patience is a virtue" ?

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Absolutely. I'm reading Three's posts in their entirety.

 

Quote:<div>
 

.<span style="font-size:10.5pt;">I am rostered, as the Captain of the currently ranked #1 team in league. Where you two numbnuts fucked up is you had no idea who I was as I wanted to practice aliased. Would you have freaked out had you known it was me, if it was develop, Nacre, etc.? I highly doubt it. You would have sat there and understood it's a squad arena.
</span>

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Of course anyone should be challenged when forcecapping from one unrostered player to another unrostered player while neither side is putting a squad on the table. I'd expect you've been in #1 league teams many times, probably captained a few, I dunno. Couldn't give a fuck tbh - if I disagree with you I'm not gonna stfu because of your 2d spaceship game successes, or because you scream baseless abuse at me. In fact with that sort of "pedigree" rofl or whatever you call it, you should know better. Your pewpew skills - huge respect. Your attitude to a fledgling player and the health of the game - not much respect at all.


Kind of overestimating your powers of subterfuge there, btw.

 

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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">The fact that you don't know this leagues, this game’s history, makes it that much more evident you should have no part or say in changes to be made, chump. You "couldn't give a fuck tbh", to use your words. Exactly. Bursts and shields abound - pub is 8==============D that way. You can join Axe Demento and company.</span>


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">Everything I said was completely true, not baseless. You treated me, under an alias Uhtred, with the same incredulity and skepticism you proclaim should NOT be instilled in this league. Look to thine own eyes first before throwing stones, Nude for Satan. Nice name by the way, not sick at all - very mature.</span>


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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">I'll see you in pew pew land, most likely you in spec, doing nothing but running your mouth and watching. If you spent half as much time playing as you did posting about things you wouldn't have these problems. You could actually compete and know what you're talking about, understand why rules and settings are what they are, and so on instead of attacking established players.</span>

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<p style="margin:0in 0in .0001pt;"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">I'm done with you. See you in the post season, you of course, watching. Cheers Smile.</span>
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#11
Irrelevant diversionary bullshit. I criticized your action only, and you decided to go a bit nuts. I was not skeptical, I was annoyed you forcecapped away from someone for insufficient reason, and said that I thought you shouldn't. Baseless comments are in the log not the thread. I'm not throwing stones because I would never intend to exploit forcecap. Name is a movie reference but ... ad hominem for the win I guess.

 

I don't run my mouth, in fact I'm probably one of the least mouthy players here. lol ... But go ahead and turn it into a youtube comment trollfest. I'll start: it suits you.

One of the three most dangerous people in Subspace.
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#12
There should definitely be some arena where you can basically just jump in and practice. Pub isn't good enough for that, maybe an elim-style arena would be? Or just promoting two 4v4 arenas at the same time.

 

I can play 5-10 games of 5v5 prac/solo elim in TW while I wait in the captains queue over in this zone.. I think this is a huge problem for new/bad players who need to play alot more in order to become decent.

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#13
Here's a suggestion: setup 4v4prac1 and 4v4prac2 with !next instead of !cap. have the bot scramble teams at go (worked for powerball?)


Have 4v4squad1 and 4v4squad2 with existing rules and botsettings.

 

 

Edit: i don't know much about Trench wars, but i do know that their population is thriving compared to ours.

I was just in there looking around and it seems like their subarenas are based on automated teams/freqs and voting as compared to manually choosing players.


We could still have both options and see if it brought any benefits.

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#14
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grown adults

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#15
Quote:<div>
 

 

Edit: i don't know much about Trench wars, but i do know that their population is thriving compared to ours.

I was just in there looking around and it seems like their subarenas are based on automated teams/freqs and voting as compared to manually choosing players.


We could still have both options and see if it brought any benefits.

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the problem with the prac arenas in TW is pretty much the same as here, captains usually choose their friends/good people over newbies which isn't good at all for the general health of the zone. That's where the elims come in. TW's success is probably the automated squad dueling league run 24/7; Trench Wars Division
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#16
Merit in candyman's idea. Do it. With regards to the rest, sadly some players will get excluded because of the skill gap, which I've told you a couple times B-hole. Sometimes teams that win don't want to "play" vs 4 people with 800 erat who lob and have 4 wr each. Solution? Go 2v2 with your guys, or 3v3, or try to watch the pro level players and learn from them.


Think that sums it up. Lotsa dickwaving tho in this thread. *waves his dick a bit* Big Grin

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#17
I've been playing this game since 1996. I decided a few months ago to put in some effort and learn 4v4. I find the more experienced players willfully make it harder than it should be to even PLAY let alone improve. Then, a more experienced player will join a freq with some newer guys and THROW THE PRAC. Experienced players going 0-3 in just a few minutes.  And then they have the nerve to act like the lesser experienced players should somehow be just fine with that. As if a newer player is going to keep sitting and watching, waiting for his turn to play and then when that time comes just not get to play at all  or have the prac sabotaged by an experienced player and then "keep their mouth shut" about it. SS has always had loud mouths and a lot of venom but when the better players are pulling this kind of crap, I'm done playing SS. Enjoy yourselves.

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#18
Quote:<div>
I've been playing this game since 1996. I decided a few months ago to put in some effort and learn 4v4. I find the more experienced players willfully make it harder than it should be to even PLAY let alone improve. Then, a more experienced player will join a freq with some newer guys and THROW THE PRAC. Experienced players going 0-3 in just a few minutes.  And then they have the nerve to act like the lesser experienced players should somehow be just fine with that. As if a newer player is going to keep sitting and watching, waiting for his turn to play and then when that time comes just not get to play at all  or have the prac sabotaged by an experienced player and then "keep their mouth shut" about it. SS has always had loud mouths and a lot of venom but when the better players are pulling this kind of crap, I'm done playing SS. Enjoy yourselves.

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You're about 10 years too late. You are basically stuck with learning with your squad. The chances of having a good prac even with "good" players in it are close to zero. One or two will just be drooling at the mouth and mash F3 screaming ZDEATHXJENKINS. The best bit about the suicidal vets is how they are still picked over someone who is actually trying to play.

 

Disabling !forcecap doesn't solve the issue for as long as there are arenas the people playing can move to. That is what the previously did. I should add a sticky FAQ about this.

 

Three, your squad is not #1, stop lying (huehuehuehuehue). I did not read most of the posts, but I have no idea why Nude For Satan could not have valuable input on rules/policies, regardless of his pracstats.

You do realize half the rules that are keeping players from playing league (like kicking people past a certain point to replace them with others) are in place mostly because _you_ are the abusive dick that had us make them up? That's your true contribution to league you useless twat Smile
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#19
[Image: 51FX4BLi6YL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-stic..._OU01_.jpg]

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#20
@Mr. B-hole: the forcecap command is only used in 4v4squad# arenas, if you have 4 players willing to play go to a 4v4prac# arena and start a practice, it's not THAT difficult to get 4 players to play against you these days...

 

I agree that when people forcecap to their friends when it's not squad vs squad it should be bannable.

 

There are two solutions I can see to fix this:

1. Create an IF statement for the bot at the squad arenas, if it's not squad vs squad (that check already exists in the bot's coding) don't allow the use of !forcecap.

 

2. Add more admins to be available to force this, if someone is using forcecap so a friend can play he should be banned.

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